Connecting the Dots with Dr Wilmer Leon

Gaza Crisis Deepens Amid US Election Season

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TRANSCRIPT:
Find our guest on his website MikoPeled.com and on X/Twitter @MikoPeled
TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Wilmer Leon (00:15):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Please forgive the hat. I was supposed to go to the barbershop today and get a haircut and I didn't. So please forgive the hat, but you do not want to see this crazy head of hair. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they happen in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth conversations that connect the dots between the current events and the broader historic context in which they occur. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before us is how long can the United States and the Biden administration continue to support genocide in occupied Palestine? My guest is a mid press news contributing writer, published author and human rights activist, born in Jerusalem. His latest books are The General Son Journey of an Israeli in Palestine and In Justice, the Story of the Holy Land Foundation. Five Miko peed, my brother. Welcome to the show.
Miko Peled (01:40):
Good to be with you. Thank you.
Wilmer Leon (01:42):
Let's start with some of the current events and work back. The UN Security Council demanded and immediate ceasefire in Gaza and the US abstained from the vote, and Israel was incredibly, incredibly angry that the United States did not vote no on this. Talk about the significance of that.
Miko Peled (02:12):
Well, it's the tail wagging of the dog. That's really what this is. Somehow the Israel feels, and rightfully so, that anything that has to do with US policy regarding the Middle East, regarding Iran, regarding the Arab world, Israel needs to call the shots. And so if Israel wants America to veto America vetoes, if Israel doesn't want America to veto, it doesn't veto, and it's happened now. And it happened I think once or twice before where America abstained, where Israel wanted it to veto. So now Israel is and Israeli prime minister are having a tantrum. They're in the middle of a tantrum right now, anger tantrum. How dare the United States not obey the orders of how the dog dare not obey the tail? That's really what it's all about. That's what we're seeing.
Wilmer Leon (03:08):
So how do we now really reconcile? Because we're hearing now that the relationship, all these great tensions between Netanyahu and Biden and Netanyahu now is not allowing the defense ministers. I think that were supposed to come to Washington to have a meeting. They're not coming, but at the same time, Palestinians continue to die. Palestinians continue to starve, bombs continue to be dropped. So on the ground, there does not seem to be any significant shift in the reality. It's the rhetoric that has changed at this point.
Miko Peled (03:53):
Look, you're confusing what's important with what is not important. Palestinians dying, starving and all that is immaterial. They're not Europeans, they're not white, they're not Christians, most of 'em, it's really immaterial. What's important is that Israel is satisfied. What's important that the Israeli, the Israeli, different lobby groups, Zionist groups in America are happy. What's important is that the Biden administration, Congress, all the different school boards around the country, chiefs of police tow the line. That's what's important now, and there seems to be like that. There might be a little tiny bit of a shift in this wall of support that this is massive support that Israel has in the United States. It's a very small shift. Mind you, it's nothing major. So this is the important story, the fact that tens of thousands of innocent people are being murdered, and not only does America not try to stop it and nothing to stop it, not only are they selling weapons, they are negotiating.
(04:57)They're allowing the perpetrator of this mass slaughter of innocent civilians determine the terms upon which they may or may not agree to stop the killing. So there's no precondition for them to stop the killing while the negotiations are taking place. It's an absurd reality of a kind that is really, I think the only way we can understand just how absurd this is, is to try to imagine that while millions of people were being slaughtered during World War II by the Nazis, that the world would wait for the Nazis to agree to the terms of a ceasefire, supply them with the means to continue the genocide, and then just let them wait for them to agree while people were being slaughtered. I think that is really the only appropriate comparison here to demonstrate just how grotesquely absurd the reality is right now.
Wilmer Leon (06:06):
So in terms of negotiation, there was a group of Israeli government representatives and Hamas representatives in Qatar, and when the United States failed to veto the ceasefire resolution, Israel threw a fit and the reporting is they withdrew from the negotiations but left a few people behind to continue negotiations. Some people have said to me that what this really represents is Hamas right now has the upper hand and that Israel is losing or realizes that it's damn near lost this war, and that they're trying to find some way to extract some safe face saving element from this. Your thoughts?
Miko Peled (07:09):
I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I would categorize it quite like that. Israel is achieving everything. It wants to achieve. Tens of thousands of Palestinians dead is a good thing for Israel. This is an accomplishment. Over a million close, a million and a half starving homeless people, famine basically this entire log jam taking place around the Gaza Strip, the fighting going on, the Palestinian fighters and Gaza are still fighting. So it shows goods Israel opportunity to still utilize its army. There's no downside here for Israel. Israel has no motivation to end this. The more Palestinians die, the more Palestinians suffer, the happier Israelis seem to be the happier seems to be. And this is really the goal of this whole thing. The goal of this whole thing was not to achieve some kind of a military objective or political objective. It was to slaughter people and the slaughter is allowed to continue.
(08:24)The United States is applying all the arms that Israel needs to slaughter these people. And so for Israel, this is all upside. I don't know why people have the impression that Israel wouldn't be happy. They're very happy, and the fact that the negotiations are not working, the fact that first of all, the fact that anybody's negotiating with Israel is absurd, but the fact that not only is Israel showing up, but it can leave the negotiations because it's unhappy. Again, this is all upside for Israel. I don't see any downside here as far as Israel is concerned.
Wilmer Leon (08:55):
On the 7th of October, I think it was Hasan Nala from Hamas said we weren't ll, I'm sorry,
Miko Peled (09:05):
Hezbollah.
Wilmer Leon (09:06):
Hezbollah. I'm sorry, not Hamas. Hezbollah, thank you. He said in his speech, we weren't in it on October 6th, but we're in it on October 8th, and many have been waiting for Hezbollah to get more involved. Folks have been waiting, I believe, for Syria to get more involved. Do you see that on the horizon? People have been waiting for Iran to get more involved. Do you see that on the horizon or are the Palestinians to a great degree being left hung out to dry
Miko Peled (09:49):
The Palestinian? No, it's not a question of them being left hand out to drive, but I think it was very clear from the very beginning, this is not going to be a regional war. I think it was several weeks into this where there was this much anticipated speech by na. I happened to be in Jordan at the time, and the streets were empty, shops were closed. Everybody was glued to the radios and to the TVs to hear what he was going to say. And he made it absolutely clear this was a local issue. This was not a regional war, so nobody's going to intervene. I think it was obvious from the very beginning that militarily, nobody's going to intervene. That's not what this is about. And when you come to think of it, I think it's probably the responsible approach. We do know that the Yemeni forces are closing.
(10:38)The Straits of Bab are disrupting the naval commerce going through the Swiss canal, which of course is a responsible thing to do. But I think we're not going to any of that. We're not going to see that kind of scenario play out in any way, shape or form. What I think we should be demanding is that this government, the US government be held accountable and stop talking about a ceasefire and begging Israel to agree to a ceasefire and negotiating or allowing Israel to negotiate. The sixth fleet is in the Mediterranean. The sixth fleet should follow the example of the Yemeni forces and place a naval blockade against Israel, provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians in Gaza and impose an arms embargo on Israel. That's really the only thing that that's what we need to be talking about. That's what we need to be demanding of our government. But I don't think there's a realistic expectation that either the Arabs or the Iranians or anybody else would get into this militarily.
Wilmer Leon (11:52):
So there's a lot of discussion about Israel going into Rafa. If you could talk about that. I can't remember who it was, but I remember somebody telling me that because of the specific geography of that space and now the number of people that are in that space, that this will be worse than what we've seen up to this point, if that's even possible.
Miko Peled (12:22):
I don't know if that's possible. I mean, I don't know. Worse means the numbers are indicating over 30,000 people murdered, which means realistically probably closer to 50,000, and those are the ones that were fortunate to die immediately. Then you've got, God only knows how many tens of thousands that are dying of their wounds, dying of starvation, dying of disease, dying. And so under the rubble, suffocating to death, it's going to be more of the same. I mean, unless there is an absolute force that places pressure on Israel to stop, there's going to be more, there's going to be another raha. Now they focus on Shifa hospital, then they focus on this, then they focus on that. There's always something that everybody's focused on. The bottom line is the genocide of the Palestinian people is an ongoing process. Unless the perpetrators with genocide are forced to end it, they will not end. I mean, again, I've, I've never used these comparisons before, ever at all in speaking. But in this particular case, I think the appropriate comparison is to Hitler and the Nazis. Unless if the Nazis were not stopped by force, then there would be a lot more millions more dead in Europe. I mean, I don't think there's any question about that. And Israel is the same. Unless it is forced to stop the killing to end the genocide, there will be tens of thousands, more, hundreds of thousands, perhaps dead Palestinians.
Wilmer Leon (13:55):
I understand the reluctance to use that Nazi comparison. I know I understand the reluctance to use a Hitler comparison, but it seems to be fitting in this context, and this is a question that a lot of people wonder, but because of the threat of being accused of being antisemitic, people don't want to ask. And that is, how can a people that experienced what they experienced during the Holocaust now do exactly the same thing to another group of people?
Miko Peled (14:35):
Well, that's a question that is asked a lot, and the answer is it's not the same people. Very few survivors of the Holocaust ended up in what became Israel ended up going in Palestine. Many of those that did go there left because they couldn't stand this militaristic, racist state that was established there. And so it's not the same people. The Zionists had planned the genocide and ethnic cleansing and Palestine years before the Holocaust, and the perpetrators of the ethnic cleansing and the genocide are not survivors of anything. These are Zionist colonizers. And so it does a disservice to the survivors of the Holocaust. So had nothing to do with perpetrating these crimes. And it's historically untrue. These are not the same people just because these happen to be Jewish people and these happen to be Jewish people. It's not the same Jewish people. And as a matter of fact, there were many survivors of the Holocaust who stood up very firmly and opposed Zionism and opposed the crimes of the Zionists.
(15:45)Many of them unfortunately have passed on, but some of them are still alive and are fighting and speaking out. And many of their descendants, I mean, you've spoken to Rabbi Weiss and others from the ultra-Orthodox, and that entire community are Hungarian Jews. Their families perished in Holocaust, and nobody stands more firmly against Zionism and the crimes of Zionists than they do. And they know firsthand about the Holocaust. They know firsthand, they know the names of the relatives that were murdered during the Holocaust. And so I know this question comes up a lot, but it's not the same people.
Wilmer Leon (16:25):
And elaborate, if you would please, on the point that Zionism and antisemitism are not the same thing. That the Zionists, Joe Biden is an admitted self-admitted Zionist. Not all Jews are Zionists, not all Zionists are Jews. If you could, because that whole narrative and that mythology is starting to unravel and people are now coming to understand that this is a Zionist issue, this is not a Jewish issue. If you could unpack a little bit of that.
Miko Peled (17:06):
Sure. That
Wilmer Leon (17:07):
Narrative, please.
Miko Peled (17:08):
As people know, Jews are a religious minority that exists everywhere throughout countries of the world. They have for since time. I Memorial, the Zionists picked on an idea which originally was not a Jewish idea. It was a Christian evangelist idea, which is that the Jews are not just a religious minority. They are part of a nation, and they are descendants of the ancient Hebrews. And therefore, in order for there be a second coming of Christ or something, the Jews have to return to their ancestral homeland. The who later established a Zionist movement who were secular Jews who wanted nothing to do with Judaism. They were completely secular. They wanted to have nothing to do with religion or with Judaism. Always Jews who were religious picked up on that and said, well, maybe this is something we should build on. And they built on this idea, which, by the way, contravenes Jewish law because Jewish law prohibits Jews from sovereignty in the holy land.
(18:20)I'll say that again. Jewish law, Jews, according to Jewish law, according to their own religion, are prohibited from sovereignty in the holy land. Now, the Zionist having been completely secular and had completely total disregard, if not contempt for religion, particularly the Jewish religion, decided that they would adopt this idea that they named Zionism, which today we know as Zionism, which is a central colonial idea, which was to create a European, Jewish, European colony in Palestine. And since we were talking about Europeans taking over the land of people who are not Europeans, white people who are taking over the lands of people who are not white, the world around plotted this, and the British are plotted it, and the Americans plotted it, and others have plotted it and supported them and so on. So this is what Zionism is. It's a racist, settler, colonial ideology. It's violent.
(19:23)It produced a militaristic, violent state, an apartheid state, which is known as the state of Israel. And for the last 76, 7 years, it has been engaged in three, not one, not two, but three crimes against humanity. And these crimes were initiated only three years after the end of the Holocaust. And these crimes are genocide, the definition of which as a law was established after as a result of, to large degree, as a result of the genocide of the Jews in Europe, the crime of ethnic cleansing and the crime of apartheid. So three years after the world made this effort to fight and defeat the Nazis and end the genocide of Jews and so many others by the Nazis, they allowed, the world allowed the Zionist to embark on and of the genocide in Palestine. And that is what we're seeing today. So certainly today, the numbers are very, very high. The violence is extreme, but it's not unique. It is part of something that's been going on for a very long time. It's just now people are paying attention because it is so extreme.
Wilmer Leon (20:43):
What point, well, before I get there, let ask you this, people can understand your history born in Jerusalem. Your book, the General Son, your father is a historic Israeli general. Your grandfather signed the Israeli Constitution,
Miko Peled (21:05):
Declar Declaration of Independence. Yes.
Wilmer Leon (21:06):
Declaration of Independence,
Miko Peled (21:07):
Yeah. Yes. I come from a, we, and I had this conversation before. I didn't learn about Zionism in a college course or in a textbook. I learned Zionism at the dinner table with my mother's milk, if you will. My family were all deeply patriotic Zionists. They believed they were true believers. They were zealots, if you will. Every conversation around the dinner table, every conversation of family gatherings was about Zionism and how do we further the cause of Zionism and what can we do more for Zionism and how do we contribute to the state and the state, the state, the state, the Jewish state, the Zionist state was the most important thing in every conversation, in every conversation, whether it was a military conversation, whether it was political conversation, whether it was a cultural conversation, whether it's how do we get countries around the world to support us more and all of that sort of thing. This was everything. So that's where I come from. I heard these conversations every single day growing up. And of course, it was very difficult for me to make the transition and to realize what,
Wilmer Leon (22:13):
And it was also reinforced in school.
Miko Peled (22:16):
It was reinforced in school, it was reinforced in the media. It was reinforced in culture and literature. It was reinforced in popular culture in everything.
Wilmer Leon (22:25):
The dehumanization of Palestinians was taught in schools similar to apartheid in South Africa.
Miko Peled (22:32):
Yes, it was a lot more subtle actually, but it was very, very effective. So you thought you were learning about human right, humanity and liberal ideals and that sort of thing in terms of human rights and people's rights and so forth. And we learned to admire Nelson Mandela and MLK and so on. At the same time, we were perpetrators of these horrific crimes. But because the segregation is so effective, because Israelis, and again, we're talking about very small country, because Israelis live and exist in spheres that are completely, for lack of a better word, cleansed of the other. The segregation is so absolute, so complete. There's no connection. There's no sense that we're causing an injustice because everything, the only thing we know about the other is what we're hearing from our own environment.
Wilmer Leon (23:29):
It's so insular.
Miko Peled (23:31):
It's completely insular, very insular. And so you can see when you're on the beach in Tel Aviv, and Tel Aviv is known for its beaches, it's bars, it's restaurant, it's this happy Mediterranean city. And when they bomb Gaza, you see the smoke, you can hear the bombing. Now, there's never been a military in Gaza. Palestinians never had an army. Palestinians never had a tank. At best. They've had grew small groups of resistance fighters, many of them in flip flops and jeans carrying semi-automatic with a handful of bullets. That's it. So that's a Palestinian military, the scope of the Palestinian military. So how can you exist so close to a genocide? Not to mention the fact that my generation, our fathers and mothers participated in these horrific crimes upon which the state of Israel was established and we're proud of it. And you can see today on YouTube, you can see there's lots of footage of that older generation, the generation, my father who was still alive, or before they passed, they were interviewed and they talk about the murder, the rape, the pillaging, the burning of villages, the mass killings and so on. And their other thing is the way they describe it. We had no choice. What else could we do? I mean, if we didn't do it to them, we wouldn't be where we are, which is true, but they justify it. So again, that's where I come from. And the ingenuity of the system is that you can live so close to the other, yet not see the other and then kill the other with a sense of impunity, with a sense of righteousness. Even
Wilmer Leon (25:19):
Your father is attributed with developing or at least articulating the concept of the two state solution. Isn't that? Is that correct?
Miko Peled (25:29):
Yes, yes, yes. Immediately after the 1967 war where Israel took the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, he was one of the generals who orchestrated and then executed this war, which people consider so heroic that it's, some people call it a miracle, which of course none of that is true. And I talk about it in detail in my book and the general song, as soon as it was over, he stood up still in uniform. Literally the last day of the war, the first meeting of the Israeli high Commandants said, well, now we have a chance to make peace. Let's allow the Palestinians to have a state in these newly occupied territories, the Westpac, Gaza, give back the other territories that we occupied from the Syrians and the Egyptians, and then we can have peace. And he was taken aside by Rabin and others who are the other generals and said, what are you talking about? Why would we do that? We're strong. It's all ours now. And he said, well, because if we don't, we're going to end up with this catastrophe, something that's not going to work. Everything we accomplish is going to be lost.
Wilmer Leon (26:39):
So
Miko Peled (26:39):
Anyways, he did, and then he retired a year later. And the rest of his life, he dedicated, he died in 1995. The rest of his life, he dedicated to this idea of a Palestinian Israeli peace based on the two-state solution as the Israeli establishment made it absolutely clear that was never going to happen and did everything they possibly could to make sure that it would never happen by building for Jews only in the West Bank and so on and so forth. So that is true. He was probably one of the earliest people who talked about this concept of a two state solution.
Wilmer Leon (27:16):
And your father was a linguist after he left the, was it literature and language?
Miko Peled (27:24):
Arabic literature? Arabic literature was his topic. And so he taught Arabic literature in universities. In Israeli universities, yes, ISTs. He was Arabic literature forte. And he spoke and read, and he was completely literate in Arabic.
Wilmer Leon (27:43):
So how does a Israeli general that was as committed to the state of Israel as your father was the son of a signatory to the Declaration of Independence, and now you as their son slash grandson, move beyond the Zionism and the racism and the apartheid to the work that you do now, how's that? Talk about that transformation in your life, in your reality.
Miko Peled (28:22):
Well, when my father was asked about this, how could a man who was so such a hawk as a general, he was known as a hawk. He pushed for war, he pushed for conquest, suddenly turned around, and he said, well, there was no turnaround. The most important strategic objective for Israel at one point was war. And another point, it was peace. And so as far as he was concerned, he thought, well, we created this Jewish state. Granted, we want all of the land of Israel, but we can't have it because we want to live in peace, so we need to compromise. He was deeply interested in literature. He was deeply interested in Arabic literature. He wanted to know about the neighborhood in which he and others established a state. And so to him, it made perfect sense. Where I think he was misguided, naive, I'm not quite sure. Sure. What is that? He thought that racism and violence can stop at a certain point. And the problem with racism and violence, the problem with settler colonialism is that it has an insatiable appetite. And so there was no way Zionism was going to end at a particular border. The Zionism is a zero sum game. The entire cap tree belongs to us. Nobody else matters. There's no room for compromise. And he was a highly regarded general. He was a highly regarded person in general, and he's a
Wilmer Leon (29:47):
Historic figure in
Miko Peled (29:48):
Israel. And then he became a traitor. He was an outcast. And so because he suggested compromise. So moving forward, all these years later, I began engaging in this and became an activist and so on. And I remember the moment where I looked around me, I was in Palestine, and I realized that two state solution is a lie. There was always a lie. There was no chance whatsoever for it ever to be to materialize, because Zionism is a zero sum game. Because the reality that Israel created in Palestine does not allow for compromise. Unless Palestinians go down on their knees and completely surrender or die Israel. That's
Wilmer Leon (30:35):
Capitulation. That's not compromised.
Miko Peled (30:37):
Exactly. And that's exactly what Israel wanted. Capitulation. And it's interesting that you use that word because there's a great Palestinian writer by the name of Hassan Canani, and he was assassinated by the Israelis in 72 Lebanon in Beirut. He and his 16-year-old niece were killed in a car bomb that the Israelis placed put in his car. And there's an interview with him, which I strongly recommend. You can find it everywhere, but it's on YouTube where he's questioned, this is 1971 maybe, or something like that. And he is questioned by an Australian journalist, why are you opposed to making peace with Israelis? And he looks at him and says, you don't actually mean peace. You mean capitulation? And he uses that word, you mean capitulation? And the reporter kind of pushes and says, well, why not negotiate? He goes, well, he says That would be a very strange kind of negotiation.
(31:37)It would be like negotiations between the sword and the neck. And he made it this point very clear. And he was right. And history has proven him right. And sadly, he was 36, I think when he was assassinated. He's a prolific writer. He is written incredible work. And I strongly recommend people look up and read his stories, his short stories against Ani. But he used the word capitulation because that is the intent of the Zionist from the very beginning, ethnic lensing until the capitulate, and then it's all ours. And if you heard Jared Kushner speak about the wonderful beachfront property,
Wilmer Leon (32:19):
That was one of my next questions. Go ahead, please,
Miko Peled (32:22):
Guys. A strip.
(32:23)And that's what this is about. It's about getting rid of these brown people so that we can enjoy this beachfront property. And that's exactly the point. We want to get rid of these other people so that the settlers can have it. And you'd think Palestinians have known and enjoyed this beachfront property for thousands of years. Now, suddenly you want them. You think that they don't know that this is wonderful property. They enjoy the beaches. They have homes, they have restaurants and cafes and hotels, just like anybody, any other nation enjoying their beachfront property. Gaza used to be known for before the destruction that Israel brought in 1948 for its beautiful dunes, beautiful beaches, wonderful seafood, magnificent views, the fragrance of the citrus trees that grow there. And I mean, that's what Gaza is known for, wealth, commerce, many education institutions, universities, and so on. That's what Gaza was known for. So now, Jared Kushner finally found out, discovered that this is beach pro property. So he thinks the Jews, white Jews are the ones who need to develop it and enjoy it. And he even used a term similar to the final solution or something like that, which again reminds us of the Nazis. But that's exactly the point. They want it all and they want it for themselves.
Wilmer Leon (33:48):
Chuck Schumer, Senator Chuck Schumer in the well of the Senate gave a very impassioned speech a couple of weeks ago where he called for Benjamin Netanyahu to step aside, and he many in the west praised Chuck Schumer for taking such a principled stand. He didn't call for a ceasefire. He didn't call for an end to the conflict. In fact, he said, when this eventually ends, and Netanyahu accused him of interfering in Israeli politics, was that Chuck Schumer really just either reading the handwriting on the wall that Netanyahu's got to go, and when you replace him, chances are you're going to get somebody that's even more extreme than he is like Smo. Is it Morich or Gantz, which
Miko Peled (34:57):
Gantz? Well, nobody can take his place. I mean, this is just talk. There's no one who can take Al's place. But there are several candidates and who knows what Israeli politic guy.
Wilmer Leon (35:14):
My point in the question is that for Netanyahu, for Schumer, I get it confused to call for new elections. Chances are because of the coalition that Netanyahu had to form, he had to move hard, right? Harder in order to formulate his government. It's only going to get worse. It's not going to get better.
Miko Peled (35:44):
Well, I think Chuck Schuler doesn't give a damn one way or the other, but there's a lot of pressure in the Democratic Party for the people who are represented, the Democratic Party in important positions to speak up. And so Chuck Schumer, I think he was feeling the pressure and he had to say something. So he said something that like you say, is completely irrelevant.
Wilmer Leon (36:06):
Well, in the words of that brilliant African-American philosopher, James Brown, he was talking loud and saying nothing
Miko Peled (36:14):
And being a career politician, and I think he was probably born in the Senate if not conceived. This is what he does. That's what he does for a living. I think he's been in the Senate, or maybe he was in the Congress before that. But I mean, he was a politician his whole life. That's what it's all about. It's talking and talking and talking and saying absolutely nothing of any significance. Now, Netanya created a situation where there's no opposition. So let's say Israelis went to, now, there's no reason for Israelis to go to the elections because it hasn't been four years since the previous elections. And the government is strong, and it has, as long as they have a majority in the House of Representatives, it's a parliamentary system. As long as they have a majority, they don't need to go for elections. And they have a very strong, he has a safe majority. That's why if anybody remembers last year, there were all these massive protests against Netanyahu, but this was from the people, the 45%, not the 55%. So he didn't care. They could protest as long as they want. He was safe. So because he's so safe, there's no reason for elections. And let's say there were elections, he's still the only guy who can form a coalition. He's the only one who can form a coalition. He's the best at it.
(37:36)And he has no qualms about who he sits with. And ideologically, I don't think he has a problem sitting with these right wing, neo-Nazi Jews because he agrees with them ideologically, they have a different take on it because they kind of put a kind of a religious spin on it. So they wear the kippas and they pretend to pray and so forth. But
Wilmer Leon (37:57):
They're arguing over process, not ideology.
Miko Peled (38:00):
Yeah, exactly. And not even process. I mean, he's very happy to see what is happening in Gaza. This is all, like I said earlier, this is all for him, for Israeli politicians and even for the public. There's no downside.
Wilmer Leon (38:16):
There has been talk, we were talking about Israel going into Rafa. There's been talk also about Israel going back into Lebanon. Do you see that as a realistic option? Because I would think if they tried again, they'd meet the same fate.
Miko Peled (38:38):
Well, they're not going to put boots on the ground, that's for sure, because Hezbollah taught them a lesson. And we see in Gaza too, as soon as they started putting boots on the, I didn't think they would, but as soon as they did put boots on the ground in Gaza, they're heavy. Heavy casualties. Heavy casualties. And more than any time within the history of Israel, we see the number of high ranking officers among the casualties, much higher than we've ever seen before.
Wilmer Leon (39:09):
In fact, from what I understand, before the 7th of October, the average age of an Israeli, I think say from captain on up was like 46 years old, and now it's down to almost 30.
Miko Peled (39:28):
It could be. It could. There are many, many high ranking officers and commanders of units, commanders of brigade, commanders and so on that have been killed. So they're paying a heavy price. So they're not going to do, I don't believe they're going to make that same. Now, there was a reason to do this in Gaza. I think the Israeli government wants these casualties. It helps morale, it helps unify the country and so on. To do this again in Lebanon, that's a whole other story. Israelis are still, I think, traumatized from what happened in Lebanon in the past. So the only other option would be to bomb Lebanon from the air and again, create this catastrophe of refugees. And I think that's too much even for Israel to handle. So I don't think there's going to be an invasion or a war in Lebanon. Like I said earlier, I don't think that this is not going to lead to a regional war.
Wilmer Leon (40:23):
This may sound a bit soft morrick, but I think it is a worthwhile question to ask. So South Africa and some other countries bring a case against Israel to the World Court. The United States opposes the process. Also, once the decision was rendered, the United States opposed the decision. This most recent vote in the un, Linda Thomas Greenfield, somebody finally whispered in her ear and said, keep your hand down. Don't vote. Yes. What do you see as being the change in that dynamic? What brought about this most recent action by the United States?
Miko Peled (41:13):
There's a lot of pressure. Look, there's a lot of pressure today on the Biden administration. There's a lot. People are angry in the State Department. People are angry in the White House.
Wilmer Leon (41:21):
People in Michigan are really pissed.
Miko Peled (41:23):
People in Michigan are very, very pissed. I think Joe Biden is in a very, very dangerous position politically, which means the Democratic Party is in very dangerous, very precarious, I should say, position. And so again, that's why we suddenly see Chuck Schumer say something, and then we see this in the un. We see some changes, but this is nothing significant. This is just an attempt to kind of temper the, and kind of calm down the voices that are angry. I don't think it's going to do the job. I think the anger is real, the frustration is real. But these are changes in the margins.
Wilmer Leon (42:07):
And I know your time is short with me, and I greatly appreciate you squeezing me in. So what happens now, your thoughts on over the next few weeks, what happens over the next year?
Miko Peled (42:27):
It depends on us. If we act and we start to change the conversation in Washington, then this can end. If we don't, it won't. Look. Does the
Wilmer Leon (42:38):
Trump administration make a difference?
Miko Peled (42:41):
Not for the better. I don't think it's about an administration. It's about, it's about,
Wilmer Leon (42:47):
It's American foreign policy. It's
Miko Peled (42:49):
Not just American foreign policy. Look,
(42:52)To be fair, when you take into consideration what Americans know, what do Americans know? It doesn't matter if it's the president or a member of Congress or it's somebody running for school board or just somebody. It was not a politician. What do we know about Israel? What Americans know about that part of the world is leads Americans to support Israel no matter what. Maybe there's a little bit of shift in the margins, but basically speaking, nobody learns about Palestine. Everybody learns about Israel and a lot the Holocaust, the creation of Israel, Exodus, mega exodus, all this kind of stuff. It's heavily, heavily ingrained everywhere in education, in the media, in culture, in movies, in, I mean, everywhere in the press, in philanthropy, I mean, everywhere. Everywhere. There's so many Zionists nonprofits in America that people would not believe. I mean, how many there are in every state and every city and so on.
Wilmer Leon (43:58):
And our elections as APAC is spending a hundred million dollars to unseat. So-called liberal Democrats.
Miko Peled (44:06):
And on top of that, you've got that. So that's on top of that, right? So what do we expect Americans to know? So then somebody comes up and says, we have to boycott the only Jewish state. Well, you've got to be antisemitic to say that somebody says, we need to have a single democracy with equal rights from the river to the sea. People say, well, what about the Jewish state? Do you want to eliminate the Jewish state? There's no context to understand that it's apartheid. Even though Amnesty International provided an excellent report over two years ago that there was the crime, apartheid is being perpetrated. There's no talk about that. There's no understanding that there was a Palestine that was tolerant. There was a Palestine where Jews and others lived. Of course, Palestinians and low Jews live together. There's no context, so there's no understanding.
(44:53)So obviously nothing's going to change unless we fill that gap. And to be honest, I'll just say real quick, we're working on initiative here in Washington C to remedy that. It's going to take some time, but at least we're going to try. So without change that is systemic and deep and is based on a solid strategy. We're not going to resolve this, and things are going to go better and better for Israel, and even worse for Palestinians. If anybody can imagine that, that's the only change. Those are the only two options. I don't see a third option.
Wilmer Leon (45:30):
Miko. ett, again, I know you've got an awful lot to do. You are so gracious with your time. I greatly, greatly appreciate it and look forward to other conversations, and hopefully there'll be under better terms.
Miko Peled (45:45):
Thank you. It's always a pleasure, my friend.
Wilmer Leon (45:48):
Folks, what can I say? Thank you to Miko Ped for his time with me today. Thank you all so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast. I'm Dr. Wiler Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow. Please subscribe. Go to Patreon. You can go to patreon.com. Wilmer Leon, please contribute. This isn't cheap. Y'all leave a review and share the show. Follow us on social media. You can find all the links to the show below in the description. And remember, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Because talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wiler Leon. Peace. Have a good one,
Announcer (46:48):
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DEI Controversy Takes Flight: Elon Musk Leaves Pilots Fuming

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TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Wilmer Leon (00:14):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they happen in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events and the broader historic context in which these events take place. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that are impacting the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before is what are the problems facing African-American aviators and other aviators of color in the commercial aviation space? To assist me with this discussion, let's turn to my guest. He's a man with well over 12,000 hours in the cockpit. In the commercial cockpit. He is Captain Clovis Jones, retired. Captain Jones, welcome to the show.
Capt Clovis Jones (01:23):
Thank you so much for having me.
Wilmer Leon (01:25):
If you would please introduce yourself. You have such a broad, such a vast resume. I don't want to give short shrift to any of your accomplishments, so please take a moment and introduce yourself, sir.
Capt Clovis Jones (01:39):
Okay. Clovis Jones Jr. Born in Dawson, Georgia. I wanted to be a pilot since I was four years old. I actually turned down a scholarship to Morehouse College in premed to go to the Army High School to Flight School program. However, my recruiter put something different on my contract. One reason is that he didn't get credit for recruiting officers and secondly, and that part of the world as a black person, that was not something that people who looked like him wanted people like me who looked like me to do so. I wound up in the infantry for three years, got out and asked for my scholarship back and went to Morehouse for a semester and was called by the Army's Aviation Department to see if I was still interested in flight school and I said yes. So I reenlisted into the army and did go to flight school, completing flight school.
(02:35)I was a turnaround flight instructor for both the Huey Helicopter and for the Huey Gunships. Deployed to Vietnam as an instructor pilot, the safety officer and assistant officer officer. My second two in Vietnam. 10 days prior to that end, I was commissioned in the Army Field Artillery branch as a second Lieutenant Aviator returning to the states, I went to the basic course field artillery, then to the Army Aviations school at Fort Rucker, Alabama and became an academic instructor leaving the army. After about 10 years of active duty, I got my first line job with Hugs helicopters when they were working on the Army's new attack helicopter, the Apache and I was there from its flight test department, the Hughes helicopters from the building of the helicopter to its initial test flight through its delivered to the Army. Then my second flying job was with Xerox Flying Executives, third flying job with the Western Airlines, which is now part of Delta Airlines. Then to California, which is now part of American, and I found a home at FedEx and retired from FedEx as an MD 11 captain. I have been involved in flight organizations, both black and white and current president of the United States Army Black Aviation Association, and former president of the Organization of Black Airline Pilots, which is now the organization of black aerospace professionals. And my most recent flying job was with as a captain with JSX, a regional airline.
Wilmer Leon (04:16):
You are rated to fly both, as you just mentioned, helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. How unique is that for an aviator, particularly an African-American aviator?
Capt Clovis Jones (04:30):
Well, I don't know how unique it is, but there are a few of us who are dual rated and even fewer who were black. During Vietnam era, there were only about 600 black army aviators. So there's a book 600 more or less. And so to be dual rated, that's rare
Wilmer Leon (04:54):
To be dual rated. That is rare. Before we go any further, I'd be remiss if I did not mention the passing of Captain David E. Harris, the first African-American pilot for a major US passenger carrier. He died March 8th at the age of 89, and he once said, there's no way I should be the first. It should have happened long before 1964. I know you were friends with Captain Harris. If you could speak about him and his accomplishments.
Capt Clovis Jones (05:37):
Well, Dave Harris, just a principal gentleman, he was just outstanding and always he was a mentor, he was a good friend based on his experiences, he basically told us what to look out for and that was a time where the airlines use sickle cell trait testing to keep us from being hired. Yes, either you have sickle cell and one blood test says it all, but they would continue to test you to see if you had the trait. And that was one way that they would not bring us on board. Another was testing, so Dave Harris with American Airlines, he challenged that. So with the psychological testing, which had no barrier on you becoming a pilot. So he challenged that as well as the repeated blood testing to see if somehow if we didn't have the sickle cell trait with the first blood test, they would keep testing you hoping that you would show the trait and they could deny you hiring. So that was one of the milestones, and he was one of the presidents of the organization of black airline pilots. But just a principal gentleman
Wilmer Leon (07:00):
Mentioning the psychological testing, one would think someone with your background, Vietnam aviator, that all of the trials and tribulations that you went through overseas that the fact that you survived, that should be enough psychological testing to warrant you to be a commercial. I mean, if you can fly there, you can probably deal with passengers going between Dallas and wherever it is you're going to go. But that sounds as though that was another exclusionary process, not an inclusionary process.
Capt Clovis Jones (07:40):
Yeah, that's correct. That is correct. And when Marlon Green won his Supreme Court decision, Supreme that broke the barriers of us being kept out of the industry. He was hired but not trained, so he didn't get a chance to fly. So it was a delay even in that process. So there are a lot of delaying tactics that were used and there are those that are still out there.
Wilmer Leon (08:07):
Talk a little bit about Marlon Green. He was an Air Force aviator hired by Continental in I think 1957, but they rescinded his offer and then it took about six years for it to go through the Supreme Court, and the ruling was in his favor and sent a very wide message to the US airline industry about hiring. And I think he started flying for Continental in 65. Is that right?
Capt Clovis Jones (08:39):
Roughly around that time. I'm not sure exactly on the exact year or date, but you look at his background, he was well qualified to be hired, but then when they found out he was black, they rescinded it. So that's when he engaged in the lawsuit that wound up making his way to the Supreme Court. But this industry was supposed to be all white. Curtis Collins, a congressman from Illinois. She knew some of us filed it, and we talked about the challenges, trials and tribulations. So a congressional study was initiated and the University of Pittsburgh did that study, and it showed that the airline commercial airline industry wants to be all white, not a janitor, not a baggage handler or anything.
Wilmer Leon (09:33):
Even down to that level,
Capt Clovis Jones (09:35):
Down to that level. The other piece is that the Airline Policy Association Alpha had a clause in its bylaws that if you were black, you could not be a member. So even if an airline did hire you, you were not allowed on the property. So it was no point in them hiring you.
Wilmer Leon (09:54):
That sounds like the American Bar Association sounds like the American Dental Association. There were so many professional organizations. I know for example, my grandfather was a dentist. He graduated from Howard in 1911 and was the first African-American licensed dentist in New Orleans, but he could not join the American Dental Association, so he had to go to their conventions and wait tables so that he could be in the room while the latest advances in dentistry were being discussed. So it sounds like the airline industry was right along the same lines as so many of the other professional organizations in this country in terms of their restrictive, restrictive covenants and whatnot.
Capt Clovis Jones (10:48):
Well, that was just a reflection of America, what it was all about. We were to serve others and we were not to advance and we would to have restrictions on what we could do, what professions to go into. Nevertheless, with that in place, there was no profession that we were not proficient in. And as a point of history from Pineville, Louisiana, there was a gentleman by the name of Charles Frederick Page who had a flying machine. It was a lighter than air, kind of like a balloon, but it had directional control as well as a propeller, so it could move and change directions rather than just go up like a hot air balloon and let the wind take it where it would. 1903, you had a patent. The patent was finally granted in 1906. Well, here was a black man who was born during enslavement, taught himself how to read and write, invented this flying machine, filed for a patent and eventually was granted a patent. So we've been in and around the industry for a long, long time.
Wilmer Leon (12:03):
Over the past three years or so, we've been hearing a lot about DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and according to McKinsey and Company in the workplace, these are three closely linked values held by many organizations that are working to be supportive of different groups of individuals, including race, which is an artificial construct, but they list it, so I'll say it, ethnicities, religions, abilities, genders, and whatnot. With that being said, according to NBC, news Tech, billionaire and Tesla, CEO and SpaceX, founder Elon Musk has drawn a lot of recent criticism After he criticized efforts by United Airlines and Boeing to hire non-white pilots and factory workers, he claimed in a series of posts on X, that efforts to diversify workforces at these companies have made air travel less safe. Of course, he offered no evidence to support that claim because there is no evidence to support it, and he winds up getting into this exchange with people talking about it'll take an airplane crashing and killing hundreds of people for them to change this crazy policy. Do you want to fly in an airplane where they prioritize DEI hiring over your safety? And he then went on to say, this is actually happening. That post got 14 million views with just a few hours. I know you've got some ideas on the issue of DEI as well as some of Elon Musk's comments, and of course, we all know Elon Musk being a South African. He was obviously well-trained and well-versed. But your thoughts
Capt Clovis Jones (14:08):
Well, on the subject of DEI or as Elon Musk assembles, those D-I-E-V-I-E want to doc, first of all, when I hear the word diversity, basically it's a non-starter, and I don't like the term when it applies to black people, because black people have been in every industry. We have been from the White House to the outhouse, build a White House, build a capital, had engineers doing the building of the White House who were black, even though enslavement was the status of black folk in the country for the most part.
Wilmer Leon (14:58):
And to that point, design the city of Washington DC That's
Capt Clovis Jones (15:01):
Right, that's right.
Wilmer Leon (15:02):
Since you mentioned the capital in the White House design, the city of Washington DC after having designed the city of Paris.
Capt Clovis Jones (15:08):
Yes. Well, here you have us serving from the highest levels down to the lowest level and excelling. By the way, the first book on hospitality was written by a black man, and it is in the archives of the University of Massachusetts. Here's a successful man who basically set the standards for how you serve people in terms of accommodations as well as restaurant service. So we've been at the top of the games in every industry. We wouldn't have the space program that we have. We wouldn't have the internet that we have today. We wouldn't have self lubricating engines if it wasn't for black people wouldn't have turbocharges if it wasn't for black people.
(15:54)So when I'm hearing this diversity piece, to me that's just the way the headcount, because now we can say we are diverse. We want to include everybody, and yes, they are, including everybody, because between all different groups and categories that HR departments have now, they can reach out and say, we have the most diverse work group because we have Pacific Islanders, we have Latinos, we have Africans, we have whatever other category you want to name. But then when it comes to the crux of fairness of black folks, there's an exclusion because you can hire all these others and fulfill your diversity claim, yet avoid hiring black people. So that's one of the reasons to me, if you are fair in your hiring and you have the standards set and you know what it is that you want, you're going to have a range of people from all colors, all genders if it's fair. So if it's not fair, then you have these made up constructs to basically for exclusion purposes. Now, that's my personal view.
Wilmer Leon (17:07):
Well, and to that point also, when you start looking at the categories and the qualifications or the demarcations within the categories, you start drilling down into, okay, you have 15 African-Americans. What positions do they hold? Is your CEO African-American is your CFO, African-American is your COO, African-American within your management structure and management chain within your elite classification of managers? Then all of a sudden we start to fight a different day.
Capt Clovis Jones (17:44):
Yes. One of the young fathers that I knew, he was asking me, I was flying for this company, he says, Clovis, why don't I have you as the chief pilot? I said, Hey, I don't have the complexion for the connection. So that ends that.
Wilmer Leon (18:02):
Did you fly President Mandela?
Capt Clovis Jones (18:05):
No, that was Captain Ray Doha.
Wilmer Leon (18:08):
Ray do. Oh, okay. Ray did that. Okay. Okay. Okay.
(18:13)So give us a little bit about your background getting into the industry and overcoming the barriers that you had to overcome and how prevalent are those problems today? Because when I look at the data today, 90% of the pilots are still white male, 3.4% are African-American, 2.2% are Asian, and half of a percent are Hispanic or Latino. So those numbers tell me that we're still having a problem. In fact, I got a little bit ahead of myself because the question I was going to ask you to get into this conversation is we've spent a lot of time in the fifties and since the fifties singing we shall overcome. We can now board a plane and see African-American captains and first officers. Have we overcome?
Capt Clovis Jones (19:21):
By no means things have changed. There are things that are different. There are some things that are better, but the underlying system has just changed. So we still have this system where the overarching piece is that we're encapsulated to only hold certain positions, and that of course depends upon the company and the culture of the company, but we don't have, for example, desegregation. You had that and then you have the opening of opportunities for the airline at for minorities and women were considered a minority. So there were more white women, higher than black pilots, and that's still the case today.
(20:05)So overcoming obstacles, my first day on the flight line to be trained as an army aviator, I had an instructor from the Northeast from either Vermont or New Hampshire, I don't recall exactly which. But en route to the helicopter for our first flight, he said to me, you look like a pretty good athlete. Do you know who Jackie Robinson is? I said, yes. Jackie's cousin lives down the street from me, says, well, I think you should get out of the army and go play baseball because black people don't make good pilots. And here's a person who is telling me that I shouldn't be a pilot and he's going to train me, but blacks don't make good pilots, so I should leave the program. So I knew what was in front of me. So I went to the flight commander and asked for a change of instructors, and the upshot of that conversation was, well, both of you are new.
(21:03)He's a new instructor. You are his first student. You are a new warrant officer candidate, and this is your first flight, so it's going to look bad for both of you. And he wanted to know why. And I explained to him without saying, the guy's a racist. And he says he mulled over it for a second or two and says, this is what I'll do. I'll ensure that you have every opportunity that any of the other one officer candidates have in this program. And I said, okay, that's good. However, when I come back and ask for a change of instructors, I want a change of instructors, no questions asked. And that is what happened. This gentleman was, you can read the syllabus, you can understand what is to be done and you can mimic it, but there are certain standards or there are certain ways that the army wants you to fly.
(21:59)And if you aren't trained to do that during your check rides, you get downgraded. He was teaching me wrong. So I had a progress ride. A young instructor who was about the same age as I was, was about 21 years old, and he'd been flying. He had his license when he was 16 to 17 years old. His came from a wealthy family and his family got him trained in the helicopter instructor and all that. He asked me to do a taxi, oh, this is not how we do it, asked me to do a takeoff. Oh, I got the aircraft. This is not how we do it. So he demonstrated every maneuver that he asked me to do because I was doing it as I had been trained to do it. When he showed me the way that I needed to do it in order to meet the standards that were expected of me, I did them as he demonstrated.
(22:50)And at the end of the flight he says, I've got to talk to the flight commander. That's something not right here. You started this flight off unsatisfactory now, but you end it. You're above average. But I can't give you an above average because where you started, I just got to talk to the flight commander, and I just smiled. And so I said to myself, I already have. So my next day of flying, the Deputy flight Commander, Dick Strauss, need to give him props. And also the flight commander, Sam Countryman, Dick Strauss, we got into the helicopter, flew out to the stage field, we landed. He says, take it around the past three times and park it on a certain spot. And that's what I did. I soloed that day with this gentleman just flying with me from the main hella Ford at Fort Walters, Texas out to the stage field that we were operating from that day.
(23:42)And at the end of my primary flight training, Dick Strauss showed me some things that you could do with a helicopter that were not in the syllabus. He said, it may come in handy one day, and it did for me because in a COBRA helicopter, which is know is heavy, I was an instructor giving an in-country orientation to a new pilot. And on very short final, we lost our 90 degree gearbox and tail rotor. And without a tail rotor, you do not have directional control in the helicopter. So we went from a nose up attitude to a nose down attitude spinning right, and it wanted to roll inverted left. And all of that last day of flying that Dick Straus showed me what the helicopter could do. Instinctively I did it. I stopped the turn by closing the throttle right rear cyclic to level the aircraft, pull the collective up, and we spawned about 1800 degrees like in about two seconds. But I was able to land the helicopter with just minimal damage. And I was told that's the first time that you'd had such a catastrophic failure that either the helicopter was not destroyed or the palace would not either killed or injured.
(24:51)So everybody encounter is not against you, but you do have the remnants of the shadows of the echoes of you still have the echoes of slavery. You still have the echoes of containment of us being in certain categories, and there are people who really want to keep us there and some people who want to put us back there. So that is prevalent in our industry as well.
Wilmer Leon (25:17):
You're 21 years old, you're in the service, which is a hierarchical organization, and your instructor tells you that you need to leave the service and go play baseball.
Capt Clovis Jones (25:30):
Yes.
Wilmer Leon (25:31):
Where did you find the intestinal fortitude to manage that circumstance? By A, not punching him in the face, B, not saying anything derogatory to him and then punching him in the face. You see, I got to think about punching people in the favor, but no. So where did you get that ability to manage that circumstance to your favor, not your detriment?
Capt Clovis Jones (26:09):
Well, I learned firsthand about white racism and at four years old, and we had black insurance agents and white insurance agents come to the house to collect whenever that cycle was. And this one agent, he had a white car. My father had a black car, and so it happens that my father's car was parked in front of the house that day. He pulls up and he calls me over, and I was hesitant about going, but then I did go. He says, come over. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not going to do anything to you. He says, put your hand on my car. And I hesitantly raised my hand. So he put my hand on his car. He said, how does that feel? I said, it feels okay. He said, now, go touch your father's car. So I put my hand on my father's car, and because it was about 11 o'clock in the day, sunshiny day in the summer, it was hot.
(27:02)I jerked my hand off the car. He said, that's what I wanted to show you. White is better than black. And from that point on, I didn't like that gentleman anymore. So I realized there are people who will be encouraging to you and people who will try to convince you that you should take some lesser position or that you are inferior to them. So with that background, it's like then I knew about the Tuskegee Avenue at that point. Plus one of my mentors, Carl Bohannan, who was the first black presidential pilot when I was in an infantryman, he was flying the flying cranes in Vietnam in the first cab division. So I had examples of excellent black aviators that I knew about. So with that, I'm thinking, this guy's totally out of his head, and I know he's not going to train me properly. And so that's why I went to the flight commander and asked for a change of instructors, and it worked out in the end, but I had to put up with this nonsense and even accused me of leaving, of causing a circumstance where the engine could fail because he said, I didn't put the Carter pin back in the oil cap, and the vibrations could have caused the cap to unscrew, and because we of flying, the wind would pull the oil out of the reservoir hints causing the engine to seize, and we would have to do a forced landing.
(28:34)I know that I didn't do that, and that was the day that I asked for change of instructors
Wilmer Leon (28:39):
Because
Capt Clovis Jones (28:39):
This guy, if he's going to lie and say that I did something that I know I didn't do because I was meticulous about everything, but you just have to understand who you're dealing with.
Wilmer Leon (28:50):
That was my second question on this issue, which was the subjective nature of your instructor's evaluations. So knowing that in circumstances like you're articulating, there's the checklist that he would go through, but then there were also the subjective factors that would enable him to fail you if he so chose to because he didn't like the fact that you tied your shoes because you're right-handed versus tying your shoes because you're left-handed or whatever it might be. Speak to that, please.
Capt Clovis Jones (29:32):
Well, that was the case. In fact, one of my dearest friends who's now made transition, Robert B. Clark Jr. He and I started in the same class. We didn't graduate in the same class because Bob was terminated from flight training because his instructor said that he could not fly. However, Bob knew how to fly helicopters before he came to flight school. He had the syllabus, he knew everything, and he appealed it all the way to the Department of Army. And the base commander was asked to get involved. So he asked Bob, can you fly this helicopter? He says, yes. Well, let's go out to the airfield and let's go fly to the stage field to where your flight group is flying. He did. I mean, he was off for three months, got in the helicopter, flew out there, landed, and they went and talked to the flight commander. And also that instructor, that instructor was fired on the spot. Of course, the flight commander was trying to protect him because it was civilian pilots training us, and they were with Southern Airways based out of Birmingham, Alabama. So again, that cultural piece,
Wilmer Leon (30:40):
Was that Birmingham or Bombingham? Well, both. What year are we talking about?
Capt Clovis Jones (30:47):
We're talking about 1967.
Wilmer Leon (30:49):
Okay, we're talking Bombingham. Yes.
Capt Clovis Jones (30:52):
Yes. 1967.
Wilmer Leon (30:54):
Okay.
Capt Clovis Jones (30:54):
So you have people who don't want to see you there in the first place. And there was this rule, there's only going to be one black graduate per class, just one. I don't care how many start, there's only going to be one. But after complaints by Bob, by me and others about what the situation was, in fact, that was a program. You had these data sheets that you would answer your questions on when the final exam for any of the courses we were taking, and they could program things based on the way we were using social security numbers. Then even if we knew that we scored a hundred based on going down after the test was over and looking at what you had marked versus what the answers were, black pilots could only get in the eighties if you got everything right, you were in the low to mid eighties, you never got higher than 86 on any exam because if you were just average going through your flight training and you were excellent with your academics, you could wind up being in the running for honor graduate for that particular class.
(32:10)So they program that the black pilots could not score 100 on all of the written exams. So that was another trick, and it was proven that that was the case. So there are all kinds of obstacles out there, but you just have to be well versed enough to understand and identify and just not take things. I saw during the civil rights era of where corporations would come and they'd say to people who had, do you have a college? Oh, you're different. They try to tell 'em, oh, you're a different kind of black person, and they give them jobs. So jobs that black people never had an opportunity to have, make the kind of money. And then you have some of these people who got that because people were demonstrating an industries and some people got killed. They said, well, I have to pick my fight. Well, no, the fight picked you now. Do you have the fortitude to stand up and fight the fight, or are you just going to IQS and say nothing and go along with maltreatment?
Wilmer Leon (33:10):
What you just discussed in terms of taking the exams and the particular scoring parameters that were set. One of the things that both of my parents would say to me repeatedly, but my mother was incredibly emphatic, you have to be three times as good, four times as smart, and worked seven times as hard because you're black in America. And with that, you'll only get half as far. Because when it came to education and grades, my folks didn't play, and that was their thing. You have no idea how hard you are going to have to work to be successful because you are black in America. And what you just articulated is the living example. And the other thing, when I went to law school, what I found out my first year was if I was in a class, actually it was my second year, I was in a contract negotiating class and kicked everybody's butt in the negotiating rounds that we would go through, only got a B. And what I found out was the a's were reserved for the third year, students who needed that A, there were only going to be a certain number of a's awarded, and they were reserved for the third year students who needed that grade to increase their GPA.
Capt Clovis Jones (34:48):
Yeah. The thing is, this system was not designed by us. It's not a fair system, but we have to learn how to navigate it. And unfortunately, some of what I call the under 40 crowd, young people who are 40 and under, maybe I could increase the year by another five years or so, they came up thinking that things are fair, and it's all about your qualifications and your abilities, but there is a whole nother system that governs whether you get an opportunity, whether you succeed or whether you fail. The thing is you need to be aware enough to navigate those challenges. And some of my young people,
Wilmer Leon (35:30):
Well, you just said, be aware enough. And what I have found is a number of my contemporaries, they don't want to have these discussions with their kids. They don't want to. When I taught at Howard, I would say to my students, you got to be three times as smart and workforce. Many of them, they never heard that before. Dr. Leon, what are you talking about? Well, that's life in America. Oh, no, no, no, not anymore. Oh, Dr. Leon, you don't understand.
Capt Clovis Jones (36:07):
Well, that's the brainwashing. That's the brainwashing that's taking place. Yeah, it's example. I used to wear a P 51 pen and I'd paint the cockpit black, and that was several of those black pilots who did that, and that was just honoring the Tuskegee ever because they were the first to people in mass to show that we could do this. But you had pioneers like Eugene, Jacque Bullock, who was a World War I fighter pilot, had to go to Germany, not Germany, to France, France, France. But he caught a ride to France on a German boat, learned to speak German in route, and he wound up during World War II of being in the French Underground because he had a nightclub in Paris. And the German officers wanted to come and enjoy the entertainment and the music and the atmosphere. So he got a lot of intelligence that he passed on to the French Underground, and he and Charles de Gall were good friends, and he was given
Wilmer Leon (37:12):
Awards, the Legion of Merit.
Capt Clovis Jones (37:14):
Say again,
Wilmer Leon (37:15):
The French Legion of Merit.
Capt Clovis Jones (37:22):
Well, I'd have to do the research, but Charles Gall came to the US and he wound up coming back to us, and he was an elevator man for the NBC where the NBC studios were in New York, and he was interviewed, but his background is phenomenal, and I happen to know his grandson and other members of his family, a cousin,
(37:49)But he couldn't fly in America. But in France he did Bessie Coleman. And you have Chief Anderson, who was the civilian chief pilot for the Tuskegee Airman, who by the way, trained Captain Dhar. He taught himself how to fly. He wanted to fly. His father borrowed money from the white person that he worked for, bought a plane for his son. No one would teach chief how to fly, but he'd go to the airport every day and he'd listen to the white policies. They came back and talk about what they did was successful and the stupid stuff they did. And Chief would get it in his airplane every day, crank it up and taxi. And one day he taxied it fast enough that he lifted it off the ground. He said, now I got to figure how to land this thing. Eventually he did get some instruction from the Wright brothers, and I've had the opportunity to fly one flight with Chief. So I guess I'm one degree or two degrees away from the Wright brothers and my flight journey. But you have all those obstacles in a way.
(38:57)You have other pioneers, Janet Bragg, Cornelius Coffee, you have Willow Brown, and there are any number of others that have pioneered the way for us. Chauncey Spencer, Edwin Wright, Dwight, the sculptor. He was chosen to be the first black astronaut, but again, he was a pilot, but then that didn't the astronaut program because they didn't want any blacks in the program. And he had difficulties there. But he wound up being followed his passion in business and with art, and he is one of the most prolific sculptors in the country and doing art eye kind of art for us to recognize our heroes and sheroes.
Wilmer Leon (40:01):
You had as a Morehouse man, you had a relationship with Dr. King.
Capt Clovis Jones (40:08):
Yes, yes, I did.
Wilmer Leon (40:09):
If you could elaborate on that a little bit, please.
Capt Clovis Jones (40:12):
Yes. During the Albany movement, I would go down and listen to Dr. King's speech almost every night that I could. So I would catch a ride with teachers who lived in Albany, but worked in Dawson, walked to the church, and because we were young, they would put us young people right on the front row below the pulpit. And my minister of my church and Dr. King were Morehouse classmates. They graduated at the same time. So he said, well, when you see Martin again, you tell him I said, hello. I did. So that started a relationship with Dr. King and I, and after my tour in Vietnam, my foxo buddy invited me to Chicago to work on a political campaign, which I did, and that was this organization called the New Breed Committee. And they had a bunch of black organizations that were meeting with Dr. King on this one particular night when they were planning to march through downtown Chicago.
(41:17)So I go to Hyde Park, and who do I sit next to? Dr. King. So we reignited our friendship, and he was saying during the meeting, we need some young people to lead our march through downtown Chicago. And I said, well, hey, I'll do it. And some of my Vietnam buddies, and we led that march through downtown Chicago. And then when I did leave Chicago and went to Morehouse for the second time, he would come, well, for the first time actually, because that was 1966, he says he would come to the college, Hey, come by the office and talk to me. And I just thought he was being nice. And that's one regret that I have that I did not take him up on just going to his church office and sitting down and having a conversation with him. But I did become good friends with his press secretary, junior Griffith. So he and I would have wonderful conversations, but I'd see Dr. King often come into Morehouse and every time come by the office and talk to me, come by the office and talk to me. And that's something that I didn't do because it's like he's just being nice. But now I wished I had
Wilmer Leon (42:29):
You do your tour in Vietnam, you go to Chicago, Dr. King asks you to lead a protest in Chicago. How did you reconcile what you fought for in Vietnam versus what you were subjected to when you got back home?
Capt Clovis Jones (42:56):
Well, during those days, it was tough with Vietnam veterans coming back didn't call us baby killers and spat on us. It was no reconciliation. Thing is is that Vietnam was dangerous. Being black in America was dangerous. So it was no different than walking through downtown Chicago for a purpose for black people in America than going to Vietnam, supposedly fighting for democracy when all they wanted to do was have their own independence. Because Ho Chi Minh came to America and he was trying to speak to the President of the United States, and that never did happen for whatever the reasons are. I mean, there are a number of stories as to why it never happened. And Ho Chi Minh lived in Harlem. He worked in a restaurant, but he lived in Harlem, so he understood the plight to black people in the country. That was one patrol we on. You have North Vietnamese out in the middle of nowhere, and they see that the unit is mostly black, wave at each other and keep going. Why are we going to fight each other out here? For what? So it was dangerous. It was dangerous in Vietnam. It was dangerous here in America because then as well as now you get in the wrong situation, in the wrong part of town, you can wind up dead.
Wilmer Leon (44:21):
You can wind up dead in the right part of town.
Capt Clovis Jones (44:23):
Well, look, you can wind up dead in your own house with no consequences. Nobody held accountable, nobody indicted. And Dr. King's last book, where Did We Go From Here,
Wilmer Leon (44:38):
Chaos or Community?
Capt Clovis Jones (44:40):
He said that shooting was the new lynching, and that is what we're living through right now.
Wilmer Leon (44:49):
I asked you that Vietnam question because I had an uncle, senior Master Sergeant George W. Porter, who was a Tuskegee Airman, an original and flew World War II and Vietnam, and I'm originally from Sacramento, California, and Uncle George lived around the corner. And so the Sacramento Kings honored him at a basketball game, and he could barely walk. By this time, he was about 89, maybe 90, he could barely walk. But when they played the national anthem, he stood up so fast and so erect. And so when it was all over, I said, oh, help me understand something. He said, what's that son? I said, how is it that with all that you went through? And he used to tell me all these stories about all the stuff that he was subjected to. I said, how is it after all that you went through, you still have the reverence that you have for this flag? And he looked at me like I had three heads, and he said, boy, that's my flag. I fought for that flag. I risked my life for that flag just because they want to claim it doesn't make it theirs. Do you understand me? Yeah, unc, I got it. And so that's why I asked you that question.
Capt Clovis Jones (46:30):
Well, just on the question of flags, black people live under a lot of different flags, but almost anywhere you go in the world, we're treat it the same. So just to me, a flag is just a marker. It is not something to be reverenced. Yeah. America treated me poorly in some instances, but America gave me opportunities as well. So just need to understand. This is where, to me, the principle that's going to liberate us all is where is the fairness? Where's the fairness in this whole process? Because you have communities that have been deliberately destroyed by local, federal, and state governments because black people were successful. Jacksonville, Florida, for an example, highway five, right through the black community, destroyed it. Other places,
Wilmer Leon (47:28):
Oakland, Detroit, Cleveland, urban Renewal, and the interstate highway system has decimated African-American communities.
Capt Clovis Jones (47:41):
Yes. And you have off ramps to get into the community, but you don't have on-ramps for people to leave the community to get back on the freeways.
Wilmer Leon (47:52):
The freeway in New Orleans that goes past, I don't remember the name of it, but it goes past the Superdome. Yeah. That's another example of how that has decimated the communities.
Capt Clovis Jones (48:07):
Yes, yes. And that's by design. And people talk about the government. Well, the thing is the government, you have to demand treatment from government, from anyone who have laws. And of course, you have to understand laws are things that are written on paper, but the real law is whatever that judge says, and you can appeal it if you want to, but you might fight for who knows how long and how many different appeals to different courts. But the laws, whatever that judge says, look at Plessy versus Ferguson. Separate, but equal is the law of the land. Then you have the 54 Brown versus Board of Education, no, separate. It is not equal. Okay. Same document, different judges. So when that happened, in my mind it's like, wait a minute. That's something not right about this whole picture because why you have the same document. Where is the fairness in all of that? What is really right? And now you have school desegregation, but you have most of the teachers a female, and they are not black. And you have this whole school system of charter schools being created by white women who didn't want their children to go to school with black children. So you still have people say, oh, we have overcome. Oh, it is better now. Yes, it's different, but in a lot of ways it's the same.
Wilmer Leon (49:40):
So what do you see as being the, if we look at the, again, I gave the data a little earlier, about 3% of commercial pilots are African-American. The system that they're flying under down does not seem to be that much different from the system that you flew under when you were in the commercial space.
Capt Clovis Jones (50:10):
Well, that's true. You have airlines having their own programs, which we tried to get them to do decades ago. They didn't do it until they have the critical pilot shortage. But it was oap that had the first US based flight training program from no Time to getting you into the commercial space. That was a venture between oap, the organization of Black Airline Palestine and Western University. With the support of Kellogg and the transportation department. You had foreign pilots being trained from no time to becoming first officers for British Airways, Emirates and United Arab Emirates, and Air Lingus and Ireland. I'm saying, well, wait a minute. Why don't we create a program where black people who want to become pilots, who have degrees go through the interview process, go through the testing process, and if they qualify and this meets the criteria for what the airlines want, then let's train them and let's move them into commercial airline space. Well, that program lasted until money was diverted from training black pilots to buying airplanes. And now the airlines are replicating what was done by BAP and University Western Michigan University.
Wilmer Leon (51:46):
Is there a sense of comradery today amongst black pilots that there was when you were coming through the system, or do many of them feel a sense of accomplishment and a sense of success and participation in the system to where that sense of comradery isn't deemed necessary? Hopefully that made sense.
Capt Clovis Jones (52:16):
Well, kind of both are true at the same time. Two opposites can be true at the same time. The younger group, if they kind of know each other, then there's that comradery, Hey, we're going to support each other. We're going to party together. Hey, we're going to have each other's backs when during the ups and the downs and all of that. But among those of us who came along early, we would talk about whoever was being put upon by the system or by that airline or by something we knew about it, and we would support, because if something was happening at one airline to a black pilot, we look for it to happen at our airlines. So how did we outmaneuver that? How did we navigate those systems? How did we learn from those challenges so that we wouldn't even be confronted with those issues?
(53:12)But now, the young people who know each other, they tend to have that camaraderie. But with us, Hey, if you were a brother, and when sisters black women became pilots, we embraced and supported them because we knew how tough it was going to be for all of us young people. They think, oh, well, hey, it is fair. And the story I wanted to tell about the pen I used to wear with the P 51 and with the cockpit painted black. Oh, there was a white pilot and a black pilot, and they were both academy graduates, air Force Academy graduates. And the white pilot said, oh, Tuskegee Airmen. I said, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, they're some of my heroes. And the black pilot says, what?
(54:05)And then the white pilot told him, oh, the Tuskegee Airmen did this, this, this, and this. He said, oh, well, I guess I need to brush up on my history. I said, yes, you do. I mean, you a Force Academy grad, and you don't know who the Tuskegee airmen are. That gives you some idea of the deficit in our history that is not being taught among our own people. And some people think that because they have a job and some money in the bank or millions in the bank, that they are immune. None of us are immune from how this system operates when it operates against us. And we need to own our own. We need to train our own. We're at a point now where there's no way that we should be dependent on somebody else to teach or train our own. Because as I experienced doing with my first stint with my first flight instructor, you can be taught wrong.
(55:09)The subject can be covered with the items that need to be covered, but you can be taught wrong. And sometimes, for example, just one degree off on a heading for 60 miles, you are one mile off course. So small deviations can cause you to be way off course if you continue on that path. So we really need to know our own history. We need the truth to be taught so that our young people understand, number one, who they are to this social system that we live under and who we are to each other, that we'd better have each other's back and hold each other accountable. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Just because you're black, you don't get a chance. And all this I don't snitch. Well, the thing is, is that what you need to do is hold somebody accountable for bad behavior and destructive behavior in our own community. And we need to understand that our communities are precious and that we need to maintain the land that we have, the homes that we have in our communities, because others will come in and you won't recognize it five, 10 years from now.
Wilmer Leon (56:22):
I'm chuckling, I'm debating. I'm going to go ahead and bring this up. Just to your point. When the Willis situation developed in Atlanta, I did a show criticizing her for the horrific mistake that she made resulting in the process that she had to go through, and the weapon I took mostly from black women because all I was saying was that behavior is indefensible, especially at that level. She's playing at the level of the game where she's going after the former face of the empire.
Capt Clovis Jones (57:13):
Yes.
Wilmer Leon (57:17):
And I made the comment, you have now brought this on yourself. You couldn't keep your panties on, and homeboy can't keep his fly up, man, they came at me, but I hate black women. I have a colonized mind. Oh, who am I to? Oh, because one of the points I made was the community should not be tolerating this type of behavior. We don't want to go and tell our daughters or go and tell our sons that they're supposed to engage like this in the workplace. Oh, man. It was brutal. It was
Capt Clovis Jones (57:55):
Brutal. And you can attest to this. There's a course that you have in ethics in law school. So hey, where's that? I like the philosophy of Maynard Jackson, first black man of Atlanta. He says, his philosophy was if you are close enough to see the line that you're not supposed to cross, you're too close. And young people need to understand that, hey, you can take risks, but don't take risks on things that are going to come back and hurt you. We used to be told there's always somebody watching you and they were talking about God, the creators. There's always somebody watching you. Well, now there's always somebody watching you because you have these devices that your cameras can be turned on, microphones turned on track wherever you are.
Wilmer Leon (58:53):
And what was one of the things that they got her on? Cell phone records?
Capt Clovis Jones (58:57):
Yes.
Wilmer Leon (58:58):
Yes. Cell phone records. Yes. Well, you said that you only visited him so many. Oh, but his phone seemed to wind up in your driveway 55 times. Now, when I worked in corporate America, at one point, I taught sales ethics to the sales team, and my line to them was the appearance of impropriety in many instances could be worse than the impropriety itself. So just ask yourself, how does it look? And if it looks bad, it's going to be bad.
Capt Clovis Jones (59:45):
Simple enough.
Wilmer Leon (59:46):
Hey, simple enough. You and I did a show last week, and as a result of that show, you got a phone call from a young man who was very, very encouraged by what you had to say, a lot of which we have covered in this conversation. And he said to you that you, through your story, let him know he had a lot of work to do in his community. Could you elaborate on that, please?
Capt Clovis Jones (01:00:20):
Yes. Well, it's a group of us who are in narrative and learning about our history, understanding the principles, Africana studies that no matter where in the world you are, you're an African and your black person, and there's a whole system that's designed not to have you rise above a certain level. How do we recapture? When do we start our history? We started in 1619. We've cut ourselves out of millennia of culture, religion, spirituality, science, inscribed on the pyramid walls. Our people have depicted surgical instruments that are used to this day. So the Greeks did not invent medicine. Hippocratic was not the one who basically founded medicine, not the father of medicine. It was African folk folks that look like you and I. So with that, where's our mindset and what are we waiting on? So it encouraged him to do the work in the community.
(01:01:35)So one of the things that I've learned through the years is that for a group of people to make progress or to make any change, good or bad, you have the square root of that number of people say 300,000. Well, you need 600 people, like-minded folks moving in the same direction, maybe not always agreeing, but you're like-minded in making things better, and you're doing the work on the ground to make it happen with whatever your talents are. That shifts the entire population. And so he talked about, Hey, we need to find a way to make this happen so that we can do our work on our own, teach our children. And he's on the ground doing just that. So he said, Hey, I figured it out. I know what we need to do. This is what we need, and these parts of town, now we have the template. Now we got to do the work to make it happen.
(01:02:38)And one of the elders said, Hey, we already have the teams in place. It's just a matter of educating the teams to get them to think outside of the borders that they live in and expand their minds and understand that, hey, we were educating folks long before we came to America. We had culture. We had all kinds of things. Now, again, I have to say that everything about Africa is not glor flyable, but there are some things that are so you pick the best because when you do your best, you're going to get better and you're going to advance things rather than destroy things.
Wilmer Leon (01:03:22):
Captain Clovis Jones, Jr. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your commitment. Thank you for your work. Thank you for joining me today.
Capt Clovis Jones (01:03:33):
You're more than welcome. It is my pleasure. And thank you for having me.
Wilmer Leon (01:03:37):
Well, I'm going to have you back, folks. Thank you so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wier Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. And remember, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wilmer Leon. Have a good one. Peace. Some lessons. I'm out
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Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.

USA vs China, Iran, and Turkey

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Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Dr Leon (00:14):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I am Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to see the broader historical context in which events take place. During each episode of this program, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events and the broader historic context in which they occur. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before us is the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and why does the United States keep throwing good taxpayer dollars after bad. To discuss this, we are joined by my guest Mark Sloboda. He's a Moscow based international relations and security analyst. Mark, as always, welcome back
Mark Sleboda (01:18):
Dr. Leon. Thanks for having me. It's always an honor and a pleasure to be on connecting the dots.
Dr Leon (01:23):
So it's been reported that an attack on a convoy of Ukrainian military equipment in the esque people's Republic was carried out with the use of short range ballistic missiles. And it also seems as though with all of this hand wringing in the US Congress about funding for Ukraine, all the US and NATO is doing, or seems to be doing, is sending more targets for Russia to destroy your thoughts, mark.
Mark Sleboda (01:52):
Yeah, there's some rather dramatic developments really under-reported in the Western press that have very large implications going forward for the conflict in Ukraine. The current situation on the ground, I think the Western mainstream media has finally their propaganda narrative bubble has finally burst. Look, in a span of how short a period of time we have gone from Ukraine is winning to
(02:34)Stalemate, it's a stalemate on the battlefield to, oh my God, we're losing to Nigeria with snow. I mean, that's the rather dramatic change in the propaganda narrative, and I think we can see it reflected in the political elite as well with the panic and desperation that is starting to sit in and become rather obvious among European leaders who really have the most to lose from this conflict, rather other than the Kiev regime in Ukraine itself. And this all occurs, these latest incidents in the final weeks of and the aftermath of the Russian breakthrough of the Kiev regime's most heavily fortified fortress city, these extensive defenses and fortifications trenches, concrete bunkers, pill boxes, networks of tunnels, layers of minefields, you name it, Inca, which is really quite close to Dan City, and a western journalist a couple of years ago already referred to it rather poetically if quite awfully as a knife pointed at the heart of Dansk.
(04:10)They meant that in a good way. Another way, of course, looking at it was a Jack boot pressed to the neck of the people of Donbass because it is from aca and the settlements shielded behind it that the Ki regime forces brutally shelled the people of Dansk for the last decade pretty much regularly. They didn't shell military facilities, they shelled civilian areas with artillery, with cluster munitions, with pedal mines. And this was to punish the people of done bus for choosing wrong, for not accepting the overthrow of the government by the Westback Maan butch back in 2014, and with the intention with driving Russian ethnic people who did not accept the new Ukraine into Russia. That was the intention and one of the primary reasons for the Russian intervention in the Ukrainian civil conflict, not the only one. There were security concerns as well, but this was loudly voiced as well.
(05:22)And when the Russians broke through it aga, they did it rather dramatically towards the end. It ended up much shorter than say the siege of Bach Mu, despite the defenses in a DKA being considerably stronger, and this is because of a sea change on the battlefield. The KI regime's initial a integrated Soviet legacy air defense network, the backbone of which was the formidable S 300 systems had been largely deteriorated at this point already a few months ago. And on top of what hadn't been destroyed, they were absolutely out of interceptor missiles for it, and there were none left in countries that are now part of the west former Eastern Bloc countries. Their supplies were all exhausted. So there was an attempt to put together a hodgepodge piece meal air defense system not properly integrated with using Western systems, but that has also been attributed away over the last few months.
(06:35)Russia launched an extensive campaign over the winter, and that was a primary target of their missile and drone campaign. So in afca, Russia fully unleashed the fab guided glide bombs on these defenses. And these are old dumb munitions with smart glide kits that turn them into precision weapons being able to fire from air at a distance of tens of kilometers. And because these are bombs, not artillery shells, they have a considerably bigger payload. They come in 500, 1000 and 1500 kilogram capacities and they just annihilate. I mean, if the Ki regime turns, say what they did pretty much to every building in the city, turning it into a mini fortress that has to be individually stormed one fab bomb, and it's gone. And particularly at the larger end, the 1500, they have an incredibly demoralizing effect on anyone within the radius of experiencing the explosion, the concussion and the like.
(07:57)And in the closing days of a dka, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense, they dropped over 500 of these, oh my God, on the fortresses in just the last few days, right? So that's why they collapsed so quickly and dramatically at the end and why there was such a route. And they're able to do this now because they can fly with a considerable degree of impunity over the battlefield because first, the Soviet legacy and now the Western Air Defense system sent us a replacement, have largely been destroyed. And immediately in the aftermath of Dfca, the Russian forces far from being exhausted, as many Western military analysts drinking their own propaganda Kool-Aid tried to claim claiming high casualties as they always do without evidence to back it up other than the say so of the regime in Kiev. Russian forces were not exhausted because they had not suffered any considerable attrition because they had been standing off and dropping an extremely large bombs from Sue, 30 fours from fighter bombers on ev dca, which is what did at least at the end the majority of their work for them once they were already ensconced in the outskirts of the city.
(09:24)So they continued on fallback positions in the next line of villages that Kiev regime forces had retreated to and were hastily trying to dig themselves in because they had not built proper defenses. And for instance, Laska and Severna lasted two or three days, and as Russia moved on the second line of villages even further, and we faced a real breakthrough in the Kiev regime defensive lines at this point, the Kiev regime became desperate to try to at least slow down. We're not even talking stop, but to slow down the Russian advance to give themselves more time to hastily dig as the Western headlines have now been talking about what the Kiv regime needs to do to dig new trenches, to dig new fortifications. So they moved a large number of what air defense systems they had left elsewhere in the country into an area far too close to the battlefield.
(10:32)And Russia at this point, not only of course, enjoys air superiority over the contact line, but they also enjoy drone superiority. And Russia has put a rather larger number of military satellites into the orbit in the last year, last few months that have started to come online. So they were able to track these air defense systems fairly well, and it's more than just three patriot launchers that have been destroyed. Also, one of the remaining older S 300 air defense systems, several NASS air defense systems supplied by the US and Norway, and also a number of books and smaller systems. By my count at least 11 air defense systems have been destroyed in the last two weeks over the area immediately to the west of F dca. And this is adding to the butcher's bill. Previously, the Kev regime has adopted a new tactic in several areas.
(11:50)We saw it over the sea of, we saw it also in Belgo where that Ill 76 transport plane shut down the KI regime shut down its own plane full of prisoners of war A couple of months ago, if you remember forced to admit it, they've been sending in an attempt to try to stop the Russian dominance of the skies. They've tried to use essentially not mobile air defense systems in a mobile capacity to set up ambushes for Russian planes to instill a degree of caution and restraint. But that has proven very costly for them because they've also lost air defense systems in that way as well, because of course, Russia was actively hunting them down and despite their claims to have shut down large numbers of Russian aircraft, there is zero evidence providing this zero. I mean, and there have been plenty of evidence, for instance, of the Kev regime's own aircraft, remaining aircraft being shot down when they're shot down.
(13:06)There is video footage, there is air wreckage and the like. So really questionable claims they may have sacrificed other than this, of course, the POW plane, which everyone noticed, but that was an undefended transport plane flying in what it assumed a mission of peace bringing POWs for an exchange. So they've lost a huge degree of whatever hodgepodge air defense they had left. Now, Forbes speaking just of the events in F dca, not of the rest of it, says that just in those engagements that the Kev regime lost 13% of its air defense capacity speaking specifically of the Patriot systems provided to it. And that's on paper because they're not acknowledging earlier patriot systems that have been shot down. So I would suggest that they have at this point lost far more. They probably have a number of patriot launchers in the single digits left in Kiev, for instance, possibly in Odessa.
(14:22)But the implications of this going forward is that Russian use of air superiority and even now close air support over the contact line is going to dramatically increase because there is no air defense left to deal with them, which means the pace of Russian advances are going to increase. And this is when even Western analysts and Ukrainians are talking about rather large concentrations of Russian forces behind the lines that have been built up but not committed yet. And there is the suspicion that they're going to launch a large scale big arrow offensive sometime later this year. In fact, the Kiev regime has just in the past week evacuated the entirety of Harko region. Some 85 settlements ordered the civilian evacuation because they fear a big offensive in the harko direction in the coming probably months, perhaps weeks.
Dr Leon (15:36):
President Biden told us during his State of the Union address that Ukraine can stop Putin, Ukraine can stop Putin if we stand with Ukraine and provide the weapons that it needs to defend itself. That's all he says. In fact, there are no American soldiers at war in Ukraine. My question is, who's operating these US supplied Patriot air defense systems and are there US special forces trainers that are on the ground training these forces?
Mark Sleboda (16:14):
Okay, so first to the last point, Joe Biden is lying genocide. Joe is flat up lying and we know it because the Western mainstream media has told us already in the summer of 2022 in the New York Times and the Washington Post talking about unusually large numbers of US intelligence and US and European commandos on the ground in Ukraine. Then later we heard there were hundreds of uniformed US troops on the ground, again from the western mainstream media that were doing tracking of Western supplied weapons. Now, if that's really what they were doing, then they weren't doing a very good job because it was only weeks after that we heard that the West couldn't track these weapons at all. So I mean either they were completely incompetent or they are doing something else on the ground
Dr Leon (17:15):
On top of them. Wait a minute, are these also, aren't these the same stories that a lot of these weapons are showing up in other battles in other countries?
Mark Sleboda (17:24):
Yes. Yes. With the idea that a tithe essentially of Western weapons is being sold through corruption in the Ukrainian military and the distribution networks off because of the prevalent corruption in the country to pad their own pockets. And then I don't think there's anything question about that. The Western mainstream media has long reported about that. In fact, early on, CBS noted that some 70% of the weapons supplied by the west were not reading the front lines. This was early on in the conflict. So on top of those commandos, we now the Russian government has long complained that these high-tech systems supplied by the west from the US in particular the high Mars and multiple launch rocket systems in the Patriot air defense systems, as well as some French air defense systems, Polish crab artillery systems, British storm shadows, cruise missiles, that these are all being operated by western military specialists who are being sent there under the guise of mercenaries or humanitarian and aid workers and the like, because it is impossible to train the Kiev regime forces in such a short period of time to operate these advanced western systems.
(19:09)The Russian government's been saying this for a considerable amount of time, but this was confirmed by no less a person than the German chancellor Olaf Schultz, who in an apparent spat back and forth with the French leader, Emmanuel Macron, and to the British as well, when the British were pressuring Germany to deliver the Taurus missiles, the context of Ola Schultz is we can't do what the British, the French, and the Americans are doing and have people obliquely. He admitted that the West had their military forces on the ground operating their systems and that Germany could not be seen as doing that. And this was reinforced in these leaked military calls from the German Air Force planning, a series of cruise missile attacks inside Russia with the expected to be delivered towards cruise missile system, at least expected by them. The political elites in Germany aren't saying that, but they also revealed that the German cruise missiles could perhaps be operated on the ground by the rather large number of Americans of people on the ground wearing civilian clothes with American accents, which of course is a roundabout way of saying US military personnel not in uniform on the ground in Ukraine.
(20:58)So I mean, they just have to
Dr Leon (20:59):
Be curious from Kansas that are wandering the fields and the step of Germany and Russia and Ukraine.
Mark Sleboda (21:07):
Yeah, they're not wearing boots. They're wearing ballet slippers or figure skates or something, I guess. So that's a lie. Second of all, the Kim regime can defeat. Well, Ukraine can beat Putin, right? The childish way that western leaders and media try to demonize any opponent down to just one leader and so forth. But if that was true, if Western military aid in Ukrainian regime hands was enough to beat Russia, then what happened over their failed summer counter offensive that was armed trained, financed intelligence planned and war gamed out by nato, primarily US by the Pentagon, that's who did it. They failed. They failed badly. They were mauled. They never even got past the first of Russia's five echelon defensive lines and suffered horrible casualties in the process. No one denies that. So there is no indication that however additional tens of billions of dollars of aid are sent that the West will ever again able to build an offensive force like they did for Ukraine in the summer offensive because they simply don't have the weapons in inventory to replace everything like that.
(22:50)They do have some things, they got plenty of Bradleys if they want. Obviously they're very reticent to allow the rather small number of Abrams that they've sent to be used in combat. Four of them have been destroyed after just appearing on the battlefield in the last week. But the rest of the Western militaries that supplied weapons, they're tapped out. France, Germany, Denmark, the United Kingdom, they've all said, we can't supply anymore because we've already dug past our stockpiles into our own military supplies and we can't replace these systems fast enough. For instance, one French Caesar self-propelled Howitzer, a total of 36 of these between France and Denmark were supplied to the Kiev regime for the course of that offensive. And they're practically through all of them, they have very few of them left because Russia's been hunting them down. And also they are subjected to considerable wear and tear, and they're not actually built for high intensity combat like this, much like the US' M triple sevens and the Paladins and the like. But it takes the French 18 months, the French military industrial complex, 18 months. 18 months
Dr Leon (24:20):
To
Mark Sleboda (24:21):
Build one
Dr Leon (24:22):
That's a year and a half
Mark Sleboda (24:23):
One Caesar. But we heard that they have shortened that time to 15 months. Oh
Dr Leon (24:30):
Wow. That makes me feel a whole lot better. You just mentioned the leaked recordings from the German Air Force, and is it a coincidence that after these conversations were leaked where the Germans were talking about taking out bridges in Russia with cruise missiles that Victoria Newland resigns because there are some who say that her name was mentioned in on these tapes and that the German Air Force officers were really talking about conversations either they had with her or ideas that she was presenting about these attacks inside Russia?
Mark Sleboda (25:16):
Yeah, there's a possibility there, and if that is the situation, then it appears that she was probably forced out by the Biden administration. But are I think there are other considerations in play. Victoria Newland, the Queen NeoCon of the us, she's married to Robert Kagan who is the arch NeoCon of the United States. Robert Kagan, his books, check them out if you're unfamiliar with his sinister work. I would say she has long dominated through several presidencies US policy towards Ukraine. She was instrumental in the actual Westpac, my Don pooch, if not the key architect of it. She was caught on recordings with then US Ambassador Jeffrey Piat, talking about how they needed to midwife this thing, bring then Obama's Vice President Joe Biden into midwife it picking the new Prime Minister of Ukraine, Arsen Ya from the leaders, the figurehead leaders of the Maidan, and then famously saying F, the when the idea that the Europeans might want someone else for Ukraine's next prime minister was presented. So I mean she's been instrumental and she briefly left office during the Trump administration and then came right back. She has been serving as under Secretary for political affairs, which despite the rather kafkaesque bureaucratic name is actually the third highest official within the US Department of War. I'm sorry, not the US Department of War, US Department of State. My bad.
Dr Leon (27:23):
I can understand the confusion.
Mark Sleboda (27:24):
I said the difference. Yeah, she a third highest official and she was actually operating as the second highest official just below the Secretary of State for about a half of year when Wendy Sherman, the previous Deputy Secretary of State stepped down. So she was doing the number two and number three job and it was widely expected that she would be permanently assigned to that position, a permanently elevated to Deputy Secretary of State. But we found out that just a month ago she was passed over for this position by Kirk Campbell. The Biden approved someone else, and Kirk Campbell is an Asia specialist. He's a specialist on China, which to my mind tells me that the Biden administration is tiring of this conflict in Ukraine and they're already looking past it despite the bad situation. Their proxy regime is in to China, which may indicate a planned change of policy or at least prioritization or at the very least an unwillingness to escalate further, I say may.
Dr Leon (28:48):
So does that mean then that the Biden administration is now following along the previous Obama administration's tilt towards Asia?
Mark Sleboda (29:02):
Yeah, that's entirely possible. I believe that's what the Biden administration always wanted to do. They wanted the Middle East to remain quiet and it was not a priority for them. That didn't go out down so well. Just a week before the October 7th, seventh launching of the all Axel flood operation by Hamas on Israel, Jake Sullivan was in an essay talking about how nice and quiet the Middle East was, which allowed the US to concentrate on other areas. Well, that didn't go so well then since then. But they wanted the Middle East to be quiet. They expected to finish off Russia quickly. They expected their sanctions to destroy the Russian economy, Putin to be overthrown, and because of the economic commiseration of the country
Dr Leon (29:58):
They wrong
Mark Sleboda (30:00):
And that they would now, their biggest concern would be dividing up Russia into smaller pieces and how to go about that. That appears to have been their plan. Okay, so not so good on the plan thing, but then they hoped they thought that would be finished quickly and then to pivot hard to China. I think that was always their plan to finish Russia off quickly, ignore the Middle East and pivot hard to China. And none of that, of course has gone according to plan. So with A and B having failed, they're trying to go to C anyway in very likely the months at this point that they have remaining to them. And I think that the passing over of Victoria Newland for that is a sign that the Biden administration is already lost interest, possibly due to inability to achieve their desired goals and is shifting to the next goals that they can't probably accomplish even more so I would say if they think that they're going to defeat China in some type of conflict off of their own coast in the Taiwan Straits and South China Sea. But anyway, I expect that Victoria Newland was extremely unhappy about being passed over. She was probably, she can see the bureaucratic writing on the wall that the prioritization is changing away from her reason for existence, which is fighting Russia. And I think that that probably at least as much if not more so played a role in her deciding to quit or being forced out. We don't know the real truth of that yet, although I imagine that she won't be able to keep her mouth shut forever on that score
Dr Leon (31:51):
Or her husband. So political reports that France finds Baltic allies in its spat with Germany over Ukraine troop deployment, that France is building up an alliance of countries to open potentially that are open to potentially sending Western troops to Ukraine. That Mark sounds to me like there's a lot of tension within nato. And going again back to President Biden State of the Union, he told us America is a founding member of nato, the Military Alliance of Democratic Nations, and that to prevent war, we've made NATO even stronger, which is the point that I was trying to get to about this element of his speech that we've made NATO even stronger, and now he also assigns or attributes Finland joining NATO as evidence of NATO's strength. It doesn't sound like, it doesn't sound like it's all good in
Mark Sleboda (32:59):
Yeah, I mean definitely. I mean, Hungary and Slovakia of course are the most egregious examples of this because they are completely against the proxy war now being fought on Russia in Ukraine completely. They won't have anything to do with it. But yeah, there are definitely, I think tensions and cracks emerging and a bit of a panicked blame game going on right now with different European countries all trying to blame each other saying You haven't done enough. And with Macron coming out now in the aftermath of the taking of a DKA coming out and openly talking about putting NATO troops on the ground, I think this is not something that is a secret, something that has not been discussed for, and something that contingency plans are not already in place to do in the future. They just aren't in a political situation to have it said out loud. Now, I think that's the real problem that Germany and other countries have. It's causing them, no one is ready to do it now, and the fact that it has been brought up now, they see as politically detrimental to them in their own countries
Dr Leon (34:29):
As in the farmers' protests in Germany,
Mark Sleboda (34:32):
Yeah, in Poland, yes, Poland. I mean there are protests across Europe, but also, yes, the fragile coalition government in Germany, the rise of the A FD, the alternative for Germany, the alternative for Deutsche Man, yeah, party in Germany. These are all blowback from the European involvement in the conflict in Ukraine, and they just did not need this. Now, I think Macron has pointed out two things. One is that levels of escalation in this conflict, red lines that we will not cross in terms of escalation have been passed again and again and again. I remember back in February and March of 2022 when Joe Biden saying that US tanks and jets us would never supply tanks and jets to Ukraine because that would mean World War iii, right? But US tanks are now burning in the urban agglomerations of the Donez region, and US F sixteens are supposedly on their way within the next couple of months to the Kiev regime.
(35:55)So again and again, these lines have been crossed, and I believe this line will be crossed eventually, but not yet. The second point, and Macron pointed this out, what we once thought was unacceptable has become normal operations repeatedly during this conflict as they've crawled further up or down the escalation ladder, however you choose to look at it. And he also then made a point that when French troops might be sent into Ukraine, when Russian forces move on Kiev or Odessa, which is most likely some time away, probably more than a year, maybe longer than that. So yeah, I mean, right now fighting Russia has a lot of advantages on the battlefield, but big advances can still be measured in a handful of kilometers, a tree line, a small village.
(37:04)The writing is on the wall in terms of the logistics of a war of attrition and everything, but I think there's still a lot of hard ground slogging into the future. Macron sees that as well, so they're panicking now. I think he's right that when Russia moves towards Kia or Odessa, there will be probably greater support for his suggestions, but we've already seen support from the Baltics. The Baltic leaders have come out and said, yes, we're ready to send the handful of troops that we have now, because if there's anything the Baltics country need is to come out on the losing end of this conflict, having sent their own troops to war with Russia and having a NATO either fall apart or turned into a toothless tiger as a result of this really, really bad geopolitical move to my mind. I mean, because they're of course the most vulnerable.
(38:05)They've got large populations of Russian ethnic populations that they have been rather seriously politically and linguistically culturally repressing, particularly over the last two years, even trying to expel as many Russian ethnic people from their countries as they can, practically inviting some type of Russian backed efforts against those governments in the Baltics, really not a smart move, but also Poland has made the Polish foreign minister Sikorsky back again, by the way, has also seemed to suggest contrary to statements by the Polish president, that at some point down the line, Polish troops could be sent into Ukraine and also Canada. Trudeau has also volunteered Canadian troops as well in non-combat roles of course, because that's what you do with your military troops. You send them into a conflict zone
Dr Leon (39:16):
Very as non-combatants
Mark Sleboda (39:19):
Like trainers. First you have trainers and advisors, then you have non-combatants. We know the way this goes, so obviously there is already, and check the Czech president has also suggested he is a former NATO official himself, a very big hawk on Russia, and he has also hedged his words and seemed to suggest that Czech might be able to consider it. So these are countries who are already coming out and we're just past aca, which is really only about 12 kilometers away from Donis city, right? I mean, there's a lot more to come and the panic and desperation will increase, and I think Macron will definitely find more countries down the road when it becomes completely impossible to deny as it will become in the future, the writing on the wall that the regime cannot hold militarily. The New York Times has already talked about the possibility, and I think it's a very strong possibility of later this year cascading collapses along the Kiev regime's, defensive lines, not me, but the New York Times has raised that as is talking to anonymous western military intelligence analysts about the probable course of the Ukrainian battlefield over the next half a year.
Dr Leon (40:51):
We mentioned Sweden joining NATO and Finland has joined nato, and we know about the very strong and robust social programs that those countries have because they, up until this point, have had a position of neutrality in conflict, which means they haven't had to send the public resources over to a defense budget. Now that that seems to be changing, are we looking at Finland and Sweden as having to shift those resources? We now see more NeoCon policy as well as what we'll call austerity measures. Can we expect austerity measures to creep their way into social policy in Finland and in Sweden?
Mark Sleboda (41:49):
Yeah, inevitably, I think we've already seen it to a certain degree. They've already, of course, suffered heavy economic consequences from their own sanctions on Russia, probably more significant than have been experienced by the Russian economy. Finland in particular did a very good cross border business. I was on the Finnish Russian border just a year ago at kind of a wilderness vacation place on the border there, well, actually a couple of years ago before the conflict, but very nice, and it was normal to cross the border from Russia and Finland to go to the store, for instance. Someone had this better, someone had that better, and there was a great deal of cross border business that has immensely suffered as a result already hurting the finish economy. The Swedes have suffered the same thing, perhaps to a lesser degree without sharing an open border, but experienced it as well, and now, I mean they've exhausted a great deal.
(42:58)Finland and Sweden have both provided outsized military resources to the Kiev regime already, and those resources like so much else, are largely gone. They're either up in smoke or filtered away in the Kiev regime's corruption, so on top of the Kiev regime, of course, loudly demanding more, more, they also have to replenish their own military stocks, and now they have to militarize their own borders, which were UNM militarized, particularly in the case of Finland, which has a very large border. It was demilitarized, it was not a militarized border. There was police presence, but it was not a militarized border that is now changing and of course, facing the prospect of Finland joining NATO and US forces on finished soil, Russia has reordered, completely changed military districting on the border there and provided tens of thousands of new troops to be placed on the border as having to potentially deal with US troops being stationed in Finland as defensive contingencies, Finland is going to bear an increased burden with military. I do not see how this makes them more secure than they were before. I mean, they weren't targeted with nuclear missiles, and now they will be.
(44:36)I guess that is the price of joining the cool Western Kids Club in nato, which it seems that the Finnish political elite wanted more than not creating economic and military problems with their much larger southern neighbor.
Dr Leon (44:57):
I read a story recently that elite units of Ukrainian armed forces are discussing overthrowing zelensky. Is that a rumor? Any traction of that story there in Moscow and any insight into commanders and soldiers in elite units of the Ukrainian armed forces? They're dissatisfied with the reshuffling of the leadership and they're talking about ousting VMI Zelensky.
Mark Sleboda (45:30):
Yeah. When Zelensky got rid of zany, and let's be clear, this didn't happen because of his military failures on the battlefield. It was done for political reasons because he saw zany as a threat as possibly running for president himself for staging a military coup and the possibility there were plenty of signs that the US was actually for a time considering switching horses, which is why he forbade elections in Ukraine, citing the martial law emergency powers, and so that he didn't have to face zny in an election, which the polls say he would've lost because zany has more support in the country than he does now. He didn't only get rid of ny, he got rid of whole streams of top down to low level commanders who were seen as loyal to ny. There was a huge reshuffling or replacement of Ukrainian of the Kev regime's military leaders. As a result of this, there's a lot of embittered military people because of this. We don't need to look in secret telegram chat rooms to hear this discussion because
Dr Leon (46:56):
Regime, which is where this story was originally attributable, yeah, the
Mark Sleboda (47:00):
Story is sourced from here, but there have already been open public statements by Kiev regime, military commanders on the battlefield saying to the Ukrainian journalists, this is wrong. There was a list signed by hundreds of Ukrainian military commanders serving on the battlefield, a petition asking Zelensky to get rid of Ky, whom he chose to replace Zelensky, whom is known as the
Dr Leon (47:38):
Butcher, the butcher
Mark Sleboda (47:40):
By his own forces, not because of the opponents that he kills, but because of his careless attitude towards the lives of his own people. So they made an
Dr Leon (47:54):
That's not a good moniker. As a commander, you don't want your own forces seeing you in the light of butchering them.
Mark Sleboda (48:04):
Yeah, I mean, my military experience tells me that that would not be the type of military commander that I wanted. Certainly, and I seriously doubt that they do as well. Plus Sirki is actually ethnic Russian. He was born in Russia in the Soviet Union. His family still lives in Russia, and they're actually quite Russian patriotic, so it's a rather bizarre situation, and in many ways there's a lot of
Dr Leon (48:30):
Parallels. It makes for a tough Christmas dinner.
Mark Sleboda (48:32):
I don't think it makes for a Christmas dinner at all. I'm pretty sure, and there are definitely parallels with the US Civil War to be drawn there and with so many other families across Russia and Ukraine. But yeah, they've made demands of Zelensky public demands that they replace, that they bring back zany and get rid of ky, and of course that was ignored and large numbers of those commanders were replaced. But if they're discussing it openly and he's already taking this vengeful action against them, there's no great surprise that they are talking about it in what they believe to be secret chat rooms about taking it into their own hands. It's rather interesting, of course, that the Russian intelligence chose to make this public because if they have penetrated this chat room, you can be totally sure that the key regime's military intelligence, let's say Ka bov loyal to Zelinsky, has penetrated this as well, and by going public with it, Russia might be forcing Zelinsky hand to take action against these coup plotting, even if it's in the very nascent, we hate this guy, why can't we get rid of him? Stage of, shall we say, trash talk. It might be forcing Zelinsky hand to take action now, probably because Russia sees Zelensky and KY in charge of the key regime, political and military as far better for them than ny, whom was not a brilliant military commander, but perhaps not an entirely incompetent one either.
Dr Leon (50:36):
Switching gears, the cradle is reporting US proxies fear, Afghan style withdrawal from Syria. The Syrian democratic force is the SDF. They're fearing that their US patrons will abandon them in favor of closer ties with Turk, what's happening here with the US military, their Kurdish proxies occupying northeast Syria and fearing a Afghan like pullout. Is that a serious cause for concern?
Mark Sleboda (51:13):
I mean, that has been a serious cause for concern since 2016, right? The Kurds have been thrown different Kurds, but Kurds have been thrown under the bus by the US government after having been turned into proxies again and again by the United States in Iraq multiple times in Syria, previously against Turkey. Turkey
Dr Leon (51:38):
Going all the way back to HW Bush,
Mark Sleboda (51:40):
Yes,
Dr Leon (51:42):
Throwing the Kurds under the bus. Yes,
Mark Sleboda (51:44):
It's primary routine, which really amazes me that Kurds keep willing to be US proxies when they see the long history, not just of the US abandoning proxies like say in Afghanistan, but the US specifically abandoning Kurdish proxies before and abandoning these same Kurdish proxies. When Turkey advanced into northern Syria, they still, of course controlled northern Syria while the US illegally military occupies East Syria. They with just withdrew their forces and said, we're not going to defend you. Sorry. You should probably pull back or the Turks will wipe you up. I mean, that has already happened. The Turks regard the SDF as the YPG, the Syrian branch of the PKK, which is opposed to the Turkish government and fighting for the cause of a Kurdish ethnic nation state that would have to be carved out of parts of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and perhaps Iran. They are the biggest ethnic people in the world that do not have a nation state.
(52:55)And it was inevitable that at some point, if the US failed to overthrow the government in Damascus with their jihadi regime change, that they would at some point leave East Syria and they haven't done so yet. And despite the rumors to the contrary, I don't expect them to do so in the near future, but it is inevitable at some point is you can't maintain an open-ended occupation of a very large amount of territory forever, despite sitting on the Syrias valuable oil and wheat fields preventing the economic stabilization of the country seemingly out of spite geopolitical spite. If nothing else, you can't maintain this forever, especially with the increase in the number of attacks on US bases in Syria and Iraq from local resistance groups like Katai, Hezbollah who don't want the US occupying their countries, right, meaning Syria and Iraq. There's certainly a cost that has to be paid there, but the cost is still not extremely high, and Biden already being seen as responsible for the disastrous Vietnam style withdrawal from Afghanistan leading the Taliban to completely retake the country in rather embarrassing fashion.
(54:40)He does not want to be seen the same role in Syria, I think certainly not in the next year. Perhaps if he wins reelection against all odds, then there might be a possibility in his next administration. But a word of warning, if we do see Biden moving troops out of Syria and Iraq, the reason would probably be that they intend to strike Iran and they're moving their forces out of the range of Iranian ballistic missiles that would target them if that happened. There's a history of us withdrawals preceding attacks elsewhere when the US pulled out of Afghanistan. We found out later from the US Secretary of State that withdrawing from Afghanistan allowed the US to provide the resources to the Kiev regime in Ukraine that they would not have been able to do otherwise. So it seems that they already had intentions towards that regard, so watch it. If Biden does pull out of Syria, it may not actually be good for the Syrians or for anyone else in the region. It might actually be a signal that the US intends to escalate towards Iran.
Dr Leon (56:08):
Is there a possibility in terms of signaling here that we look at, of course, Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah is now talking about escalating in terms of coming through Lebanon. If this thing were to grow even more full, great even more bringing Iran in, you've got Ansar Allah in the game, does Syria get in the game as well? And so could the United States move out of Syria, be in preparation for a larger conflagration of that nature?
Mark Sleboda (56:52):
Yeah, I don't see that. First of all, I think the US and Iran are still doing everything possible to avoid direct conflict with each other, hence the stand down by Katai Hezbollah saying they wouldn't attack US military bases any further. And it is actually Israel who is talking about escalating against Hezbollah in Lebanon. I think the US and Iran are both doing everything they can to maintain their state's dignity and still dance around each other, avoiding direct conflict in the Middle East. That said, Israel is doing everything possible to incite conflict between the US and Iran, which makes that a non guarantee. But the Syrian government is in a very weak position economically. The US is still illegally occupying the entirety of the east of the country, including the country's oil and wheat resources. The country is, the government is unstable, it's economic, very hard times, and Turkey is still occupying the entirety of the north of the country, and they still have a hundred thousand jihadi under arms occupying those territories in northern Syria. And of course the US military occupation forces alongside the Kurdish YPG in East Syria. The Syrian government is in no geopolitical or military shape to contribute to a fight. I do not see this blowing up because no one wants to go to war with the US over Gaza. No one except for our sala.
Dr Leon (58:45):
Final question for you. The United States relative to Syria developing stronger ties with Toa, how can the US make Reproachment in this manner when Erdowan is so erratic and undependable?
Mark Sleboda (59:05):
Yeah, I don't think they can. Does
Dr Leon (59:06):
That make sense?
Mark Sleboda (59:08):
Yeah. I think Erdowan has become a perennial thorn in their side that they constantly need to keep appeased to prevent him from, shall we say, flipping into the bricks Eurasian camp, and Erdogan routinely plays the US and Russia off of each other to what he sees as his country's advantage. The US support of the Kurds in East Syria, of course, has infuriated him, as has the US withdrawal of the F 35 program from Turkey when Erdogan bought the S 400 Air defense system
Dr Leon (59:50):
From Russia,
Mark Sleboda (59:51):
Yes, from Russia, he also regards the US as at least being, if not complicit, then at least having knowledge of the coup attempt against him several years ago. Very bad relations there. The US cannot rely on Turkey and Turkey. Well, it sees itself as being betrayed by the United States. I don't see any ability to improve relations between the two until there is regime change perhaps in the United States, but more than likely it will require Erdogan passing on one way or another for a substantial change in Turkish US relations.
Dr Leon (01:00:37):
I know I said that was my last question, but this is my last question. Since you mentioned the coup in Turk a few years ago, Golan is still, I believe, somewhere in Pennsylvania at a property in Pennsylvania. Are you surprised that he has not been turned over to Turk as a way of appeasing erdowan, and do you think that Golan can be fairly confident that he's not going to be turned over as a fig leaf for better relations?
Mark Sleboda (01:01:16):
Yeah, I think the US constantly sees him as a bit of leverage. The US likes to keep shadow governments in place for just about every country in the world. Somewhere in the United States, leaders forces
Dr Leon (01:01:30):
The Shah's Sun is still roaming around Northern
Mark Sleboda (01:01:32):
Virginia. The Shah's son, Joe Biden just declared Yulia Navalny and then Yolanda, whoever she is, to be the new leader of the Russian opposition. You've got Juan Gau still out there. This is actually absolutely normal. There are entire communities outside Langley that are just exist of us backed shadow governments ready, waiting to be installed in foreign countries. But I have to say that I don't actually think the Golan movement had anything to do with the coup against Erdogan that occurred several years ago. This was almost entirely, once again, a military attempt to restore a kaist state in Turkey against Erdogan's Islamism. It was just sprung early by the Turkish government under what it believed to be controlled conditions, and then rather than admitting a secular Islamist divide in the country, they simply blamed it on a convenience scapegoat, which was the ING gong. I don't think that he actually had anything to do with that QI think that's just a rather vocal if unconvincing bit of Turkish propaganda that everyone has just played along with. So as not to anger Erdogan. In fact, the Russian president when asked about it a couple of years ago, when asked about their responsibility for the coup, his comments were pretty much to the point of if Erdogan says that's what happened, who am I to say otherwise?
Dr Leon (01:03:26):
Mark Sloboda, man, thank you so much. I always appreciate you carving out the time for me and for the show that you do. Mark Shada, really appreciate you joining me today.
Mark Sleboda (01:03:38):
Thanks for having me.
Dr Leon (01:03:40):
And folks, thank you all so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wiler Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please, please follow and subscribe, leave a review, share the show. We're growing tremendously, but we can only grow as you allow us to follow us on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. And remember, folks, that this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge because talk without analysis is just chatter, and we do not chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wier Leon. Have a great one. Peace. We're out
Announcer (01:04:31):
 

SPECIAL: Geopolitical Trends w Dr David Oualaalou

Hey folks! Thanks for joining us again for Connecting the Dots! This week we have a special feature. I recently appeared on the show Geopolitical Trends with David Oualaalou and we wanted to share this conversation with you. We're sure you will love it. Next week we will be back with a normal installment of Connecting the Dots with me, Dr Wilmer Leon.
Episode Summary:
It is becoming more evident that the era of western global dominance is coming to an end. For the last few decades, the collective West succeeded in dividing the world into their “vassals” and those they call a “rogue country” or “authoritarian regime,”. Yet, reality on the ground demonstrates the Western collapse as inevitable. Join me live 2/23/24 @ 1900 (CST) for this fascinating conversation with Dr. Wilmer Leon as he deciphers for us what this collapse entails.
 
Dr. David Oualaalou:
Dr. David Oualaalou is a geopolitical analyst, author, speaker. Award winning education, veteran, and a former international security analyst in Washington DC. In addition to analysis of security policy and intelligence, advice on security operations, leadership and managerial responsibilities, and successful advice on foreign military threats, economic trends, and security issues, David served high-profile U.S. military and civilian officials. He’s the founder of Global Perspective Consulting. David consults with organizations on a range of issues such as regional tensions, ethnic and ideological hostilities, trade and economic conflicts, energy supplies, technology, food, as well as threats to human security, and activities of non-state actors.LinksSupport the Channelbuymeacoffee.com/GeopoliticalTrendsTwitter: @doualaaloutwitter.comPaypalpaypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=MNJJNMKHXKCMGChannel detailswww.youtube.com/@geopoliticaltrends
 
 
TRANSCRIPT:
Dr Wilmer Leon (00:00):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. And I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which they occur. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events in the broader historic context in which they occur. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live.
Announcer (00:44):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Dr David Ouallaalou (00:51):
And welcome to geopolitical trends. Where to root matters. Let me bring in my guest, Dr. Wilmer. Leon. Good evening.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:01):
Good evening, David. How are you?
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:02):
Good, sir. How are you? First of all, I want to say thank you for carving out time for me. You are a busy man during the week with all your talks around the country, and I am very grateful to you. I want you to know this on behalf of the entire community.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:17):
Well, I'm incredibly humbled that you would invite me to this program, so it's my honor and pleasure. Thank you. Well,
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:24):
It's always my pleasure. Also, the reason guys just FYI. Here's one of the reasons why the moment I found out that Dr. Leon was available to this, I get so excited. Why? It's because I want you to know there are voices of reason inside the United States. There are voices of logic inside the United States, and I want you to hear it directly from someone whom I trust, first of all. And second, not only given his background as a political scientist, someone who understand the ins and outs of how foreign policy is structured and how the world operates. But I'm going to just give you a brief description about Dr. Weer Leon. Dr. Weer. Leon III is a political scientist for 11 years. He was a lecturer in the political science department at Howard University and has also taught at Morgan State University. He is also the host producer of Inside the Issues. It is also a nationally broadcast radio talk show on Cyrus SM Channel 1 26 for those who live in the United States, as well as he's also the co-host of the critical Hours with none other than Garland Nixon, by the way. So Dr. Leon is a nationally syndicated columnist with the Trace News wire and a regular contributor to over 200 newspapers and websites across the country. Dr. Leon can also be seen as a regular contributor and on international television news programs such as Press TV and RT tv. His latest book is Politics, another Perspective. Welcome, Dr. Leon.
Dr Wilmer Leon (03:12):
Thank you. Thank you. I greatly appreciate that.
Dr David Ouallaalou (03:14):
Alright, all you guys are in for a ride as far as understanding what's going on. Let's start with this weer, if I may. Sure. I would like you to give my audience here and the whole community your perspective about the state of affairs in the United States. I know
Dr Wilmer Leon (03:40):
The state of affairs in the United States at this point in time in the context of domestic politics is in a state of turmoil. And not only is it in a state of turmoil, but I think it is in an incredible state of decline. I say turmoil because if you look within the Republican Party, for example, they are in the midst of an incredible internal fight, internal struggle. For the last two days, I've been listening to as much as I could and as much as I can tolerate listening to the CPAC conference and what you seem to have going on right now at the CPAC Conference, the Conservative Political Action Committee is the Trump Wing of the party challenging what we'll call the established order of the Republican Party. And what I mean by that is Donald Trump and his acolytes are attacking people like Lindsey Graham and more importantly, what's his name from Kentucky, Mitch McConnell, Mitch McConnell, Mitch McConnell, and that ilk.
(04:59)And they're not only really debating political ideology, they're not debating policy. These are becoming incredibly vehement, incredibly personal attacks. And they are, because for example, Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy engaged in some negotiations with the Democrats according to the Maga. Trumpian folks, negotiation is off limits, and that's not hyperbole. These are the things that they're saying. These are some of the bases of the condemnations of the Republican party. And so when I listened to the CPA conference, when I listened to the rhetoric coming out of the CPAC conference, it's incredibly, incredibly dangerous. It's incredibly, incredibly concerning. On the other side of the aisle, I say that that's just as volatile as the Republicans. It's just not being articulated as clearly and as the Republicans are. And what I've seen, and I believe, I think what we are seeing is a move away from the stereotype of Democrats as being focused on peace, focused on the social welfare, focused on social programs.
(06:41)They have moved so far to the right that the Democrats are now the ones that are championing more funding for Ukraine. The Democrats are the ones that are championing more money to back the genocide in Gaza. And so to a great degree, the Republicans and the Democrats are two wings just about on the same bird. It's incredibly, incredibly concerning. And finally, the Democrats are not listening to their constituents because when you look at the polling data, the polling data says that an overwhelming number of Americans and an overwhelming number of Democrats want an end to the conflict in Gaza, an overwhelming number of Americans, an overwhelming number of Democrats wanting an end to the conflict in Ukraine, and I could go on and on and on, but the policies that are being articulated by President Biden, by Kamala Harris, by some of the old guard like Nancy Pelosi, they are totally out of step with their constituents and they don't seem to care.
Dr David Ouallaalou (08:04):
Okay? And by the way, we're going to be addressing Ukraine as we move along with this. So it is just for my viewers who just joining me here, I'm having a conversation with Dr. Wilmer Leon. We're going to be addressing a host of foreign policy issues. I just want at least the audience to hear from someone domestically that they are voices of reason, as I mentioned earlier, someone who understand the ins and outs of how the American politics operates and to give us the perspective about the foreign policy that is emanating from that. So let's me just move into, first of all, I want to say thank you to CJ for your super sticker. Truly appreciate it. cj, thank you so much. And I will address your comment later on. So I want to know your input weer as far as American foreign policy that we have been noticing, at least as one who worked in Washington back then and even back then, I started to notice that there is no cohesiveness in our foreign policy. Why is that? Why are we losing sight of what's need to be done, what the right thing to do?
Dr Wilmer Leon (09:20):
Well, because I think the right thing to do, the definition of the right thing to do has shifted from a moral human base to an economic elite base and from the United States perspective, as the United States has been involved in the de-industrialization of the country in order to provide for pursue greater markets, to pursue lower labor rates, all for the interest of the elite in this country, that same mindset has also been very dominant in international politics. And I say that clearly understanding that economics, political economy, that economics has been driving the policy for an inordinate amount of time. I understand that. But even with that, there was at least an articulation of concern for human rights. There was an articulation of concern for the ecology, and now unfortunately, so much of that seems to now have taken a backseat and sheer greed is now dominating the policy. As an example, the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline, the intentional de-industrialization of Germany, I almost said Republicans, the Democrats supporting genocide in Gaza, all of these, there was a time in the world when other countries would turn to the United States for leadership as it related to the social order. Now, the United States has abdicated that history. It has abdicated that mindset, and it's now just straight greed. Let's take as much as we can for as long as we can.
Dr David Ouallaalou (11:47):
Well, I look at it like yesterday, the vote at the United Nations Security Council. I mean to me as American, and I am sure, maybe I can't speak for you well here, but I was ashamed, I'll say it because it pained me to see how my country is behaving on the global stage by being the only country that vetoed humanitarian assistance, which to me was like, what the heck? What's going on? You can't do that just because the world has lost credibility in our ability to do the right thing. So to me, it's kind of like it's too late for that. So we can't,
Dr Wilmer Leon (12:30):
Lemme just quickly add to that because as part of that, you now have African-Americans becoming the face of the articulation of those policies. Linda Thomas Greenfield at the UN as an African-American woman backing genocide. You've got Kamala Harris as an African-American woman and the vice president of the United States going down to Racom, trying to convince Jamaica and some of the other Racom countries to be the face of the United States invasion or re invasion of Haiti, Lloyd Austin going to Kenya to create and foster this joint military security arrangement, convincing Kenya to be the forces on the ground going into Haiti. So the African-American faces that are being used as the cover of American imperialism is also incredibly disturbing.
Dr David Ouallaalou (13:39):
Well, that is the problem. That's why I put the title when the collapse of the Western liberal order, because this is almost not just at the United States. You look at the so-called democracies, all of them are behaving. I mean, we've seen what's going on in Europe. I have some viewers in some members of the community here from Europe, and they are sharing information with me as to they don't understand why their governments are behaving the way they are behaving. That defies logic what happened to the moral standing that at least the west was known for. We say one thing and do the opposite. That's to me problematic for us. Most of us Americans, they just don't understand the ins and outs of how Washington operates. And I found it very, very, very troubling. So I want to move the conversation to two main topics. One of them has to do with China. The one has to do with Russia. So let's start with China, shall we? Okay. I'd like to get your input weer as to how do you see American foreign policy towards China? What I mean by this is that on the paper we are recognizing one China policy, two systems, but in action we are doing the opposite. So why are we fermenting tensions into Taiwan straight to get to China? What for
Dr Wilmer Leon (15:14):
A couple of things. One is I believe since the end of World War ii, the United States has always felt that it needs a boogeyman in order to continue the perpetuation of the military industrial complex in order to continue directing limited American resources away from social spending to militarism so that the Raytheons of the world, the Lockheed Martins of the world, the Boeings of the world, can continue to generate incredible profit. Those that represent those interests have had to convince the American people that America is always under threat. So that's I think, an important factor in the equation. Another factor in the equation is the development and the very strong growth of the Chinese economy. And China was once just the manufacturing depot for the United States, and now China has taken the lead in terms of research and development in a number of areas. The Belt and Road initiative has enabled China to expand its reach and its influence all over the globe.
(16:59)And the United States sees that economic threat in military terms. And so that's another reason why there's all this jingoistic and militaristic language, this anti-China language as in the west. And then I think there are just some hardcore straight up racists that have been anti-China for a very long time. In fact, there are those who will say that China is the real fear and the way to get to China is through Russia. There are a number of elite that have believed that for a very long time. So there are a number of factors that contribute to the militarism, the violation of the one China policy and this ongoing threat that the United States keeps engaging in as it relates to China.
Dr David Ouallaalou (18:03):
But is it the problem, if I understand it correctly, is it the problem that because we cannot compete with China is that while we are fermenting those kind of tensions is because we are realizing technologically China is moving ahead? I mean, I've been keeping my eyes on the chip industry. I'm aware that China is in the process of developing or sort of perfecting the four nano tech for the chips. I mean, is it the problem because we cannot compete with that.
Dr Wilmer Leon (18:39):
I've had this conversation with a number of guests on my shows, and I don't like to use the term that we cannot compete. I think it is a clearer, we chose, we didn't see the need to compete because of these warped concepts such as manifest destiny and American internationalism and American exceptionalism. America has always seen itself as the best and the brightest, and everybody else is just everybody else. Well, China made a conscious decision, I want to say it was probably coming out of the eighties, that they were no longer going to be viewed as the sick man of Asia, which is how they used to not only be referred, but in many instances that's how they saw themselves. And so they decided that that was no longer going to be their reality. And so they changed their self perception in changing their self perception. They decided that they were going to play a different role in international dynamics. And so with a government that plans their economy, they were able to chart for themselves courses of progress because they're not a strictly capitalist country. All of the profit that was made from the things that they did, they didn't just put those profits in the hands of investors, they reinvested those profits into the development of their country. They focused on abject poverty in China, bringing over how many millions of people. Actually
Dr David Ouallaalou (20:44):
It was about 800,
Dr Wilmer Leon (20:46):
About 800 million.
Dr David Ouallaalou (20:47):
That's what I read, yes,
Dr Wilmer Leon (20:48):
About 800 million. They have been able to bring about 800 million people out of abject poverty over, I want to say it's about the last 15 or 20 years. Whereas homelessness in the United States is on the rise. So China has made a conscious decision to change self perception, to change its world dynamics. The United States has been focused on, capitalism, has been focused on the rights of the individual, not really paying attention, not really being concerned about the value of the whole. And so that is why now you see the wealth disparity in the United States being what it is, it's on the rise, and that is contributing greatly to the demise of the United States.
Dr David Ouallaalou (21:47):
And that's probably why Washington is in sort of living in denial, does not one accept the reality that the geopolitical landscape has shifted.
Dr Wilmer Leon (21:59):
In fact, let me give you one very real simple example that everybody here that has a cell phone will understand about probably 15 years ago, China reached out to the United States as China was developing 5G technology, and they reached out to the United States and they said, we would like for this to be a collective collaborative effort. Will you work with us going to their win-win strategy? That's not just a worn trope, that is a stated, established policy of the Chinese government. And so they reached out to the United States and they asked the United States, will you work with us on this 5G technology? And the United States said, no, we're going to do it ourselves. China said, fine. And what did they do? They created 5G. As we move towards the internet of things and the interconnectivity between say your cell phone and your car and your cell phone and your refrigerator and all these other things, China moved that technology. China is now, I want to say into six G, and the United States is crying foul, trying to prevent China from introducing 5G technology around the world because the United States realizes not only from a consumer perspective, but from a military perspective, being able to communicate at that level puts the United States at an incredible disadvantage. So that's just one example of how the United States is digging its own grave.
Dr David Ouallaalou (23:42):
Well, you are spot on weer, because I was aware of two cases, one of them in Europe, the other one is in India. The one in Europe is that some governments, including the UK and Germany were behind closed doors, were forced not to even allow 5G in their network. India went ahead and said to China, no, we don't want 5G because we pressured India to do so.
Dr Wilmer Leon (24:07):
And just a final point there is that the United States has gone around the world and has persuaded a number of companies, countries to pull out their Huawei to pull out their huawe routers and replace their Huawei routers with I think Motorola and some other US-based routers to the disadvantage of those countries. And Britain, for one, lost billions of dollars replacing their Huawei technology.
Dr David Ouallaalou (24:44):
Well, the next thing that I'm seeing coming Wilmer is the electric vehicles that China dominates the markets both in the US and the eu, but the US most likely is going to put that ban. You know how it is? They're going to say, no, no, no, no, you cannot. It's because the cost. I read the characteristics of BYD electric vehicle in comparison to that of Tesla. And when it came out to the cost $75,000 for Tesla versus $28,000, which one are you going to pick? I mean, for us, every citizen can afford $75,000 electric car. It ain't going to work.
Dr Wilmer Leon (25:26):
Not only the cost, but the quality of the product is also better. And one of the reasons why the United States that Joe Biden is now changing the US position on EV also has to do with the labor issue. And the unions in this country are afraid of losing jobs if the United States increases the production of electric vehicles. That was all a big part of the fallout with the negotiation with the UAWA few months ago. So instead of the United States investing in the infrastructure to make electric vehicles not only profitable, but to make convenient if the United States invests in the, if the United States looks towards the future, understands the future, and stops trying to control the future, and were to invest in infrastructure, making electric vehicles not only profitable but convenient, that could change the whole dynamic and put the United States on a totally different trajectory. But the United States, we can look at things as simple as seat belts and vehicles. The United States fought tooth and nail to put seat belts in. There are a number of things when it comes to the auto industry that the United States auto industry had to be brought into the future kicking and screaming because they wanted to stay stuck in the past.
Dr David Ouallaalou (27:17):
Interesting. Before we move into another one, I want to go back to China again, and the reason being because I had a chance to read up the summary of the Pentagon strategic, what did they call it? Strategic policy for Asia. Of course, it's all geared towards China. I had a chance to look at also the one in Canada. What I found very interesting, weer, just to share this with you all, is that Canada, Germany, and Japan, in addition to the us but the US was separate. Those three countries all share a common terminology as far as their strategic Asia policy. They all aimed at China. And the reason I want to bring this back because I want to get your input for the viewers to also know something about it. Are we looking at a military confrontation between the US and China? Because apparently we're not willing to accept the reality that an ascending power, it's going to replace a sitting power. And this way it comes with the trap theory. I'm sure you're familiar with it. Are we looking at a conflict here? Military?
Dr Wilmer Leon (28:34):
I sure hope and pray that we don't because that is a conflict that the United States cannot win, and it could result in the end of the world as we know it. I think what the United States is trying to do is it'ss trying to flex its muscle. It's trying to bluff China into acquiescence, and that's just not going to happen. Hence, the United States has just announced that it's sending five of its 11 aircraft carrier groups into the Pacific, and the United States hasn't won a conflict since World War ii.
Dr David Ouallaalou (29:21):
That's
Dr Wilmer Leon (29:21):
True. Folks need for as much as the United States spends on its military, not only domestically, but power projection with its however many hundred of bases around the world and all that other kind of stuff that we have. You
Dr David Ouallaalou (29:41):
Want the exact number? Walmart, please.
Dr Wilmer Leon (29:43):
756, 756 basis. We haven't won a conflict other than Grenada and Panama, the military giant called Panama. We haven't won a military conflict since World War ii. That's correct. And so the United States believes that by sending carrier groups into the South China Sea, that somehow China is going to quake in its boots and acquiesce and fall in line with the dictates and the demands of the United States. And I remember when the United States sent, I think it was the Gerald Ford Aircraft carrier group into the Mediterranean Sea President, this was just a month ago or a month and a half ago. President Putin said, president Biden, why did you send that aircraft carrier into the Mediterranean Sea? Don't you realize you're not scaring anybody? These people don't scare. And by the way, we can sink it with our kenza hypersonic missiles from here. So what are you doing? And I think that same thing applies to China because they have the hypersonic missile technology that has been tested and proven. I don't know that Iran has, if they've tested it, I don't know that the results of those tests have been made public. But I have read, I'm sure you have, that Iran has developed hypersonic missile technology. The United States is outgunned and doesn't even realize it.
(31:58)The warfare now has changed to more asymmetrical than what the United States is used to. And I hope asymmetrical is the right term has it's no longer we're going to put the Green Army and the green uniforms and the blue Army and the blue uniforms and let them march across the turf. And no, that's old school stuff. But that's the mentality that a lot of people in the United States believe is a winning strategy. And what we're, look, the Ansar Allah has changed international shipping. Ansar Anah in Yemen has been able to change the dynamic of international shipping with missiles that cost $2,000.
Dr David Ouallaalou (32:51):
Yep, it's true. It is true. It is true. And this is where I see, I mean for me now, I'm observing what's going on in Asia. I will be going to Asia soon in a few months, and I intend to see things with my own eyes. One of the things that I am concerned about seeing how these tensions is being rat up, for example, you look at what Naro has announced about opening an office in Tokyo, and the first question that comes to mind is, what the heck what for you? Look at what the Philippines signed the military agreement with the US right after it is what I found very troubling. Right after Marco Jr's trip to almost, I felt like he was given a lip service to presidency, went back to Manila, signed an agreement with the US to allowing five bases. Actually, the truth were about nine bases, only five were declared and four were not. And I believe as a former military, those four is going to be hosting some advanced weapons that even Filipinos wouldn't even know. Then you look at Australia, it's being synced into that trap. Then you look at New Zealand going into that direction, and of course, Japan and South Korea. So all this gives me an idea or a science right on the wall that we really want to have a conflict with China one way or another.
Dr Wilmer Leon (34:24):
We think we do, but that's a fight that it is a bad idea logistically. How are we going to travel 3000 miles around the world and think that we're going to be able to support a conflict of that nature, even with the basis that we do have in the region? Those things have to be supported. The logistics of this would be a nightmare. Not to mention just the, in fact, I want to say that the Department of Defense has run simulated war games over the last eight or nine months, 25 times in the United States. Lost every time. Wow. I want to say that again. Simulated war games that our own Pentagon has run the numbers. They've entered all the data into the computers, and we lose every single time. And I mean, I'm not making that up, folks. You can look that up for yourselves. That's a fact.
Dr David Ouallaalou (35:46):
No, it is. It is. I was aware of one even back then when we ran about 18 of them, 17 out of the 18th, we lost. That was back then. So that just gives you an idea. And I think the whole thing about vis-a-vis just will finish up with this China and move to another topic is that the idea that you look at where China is investing its money in infrastructure. I mean, I drive around the country, I fly from state to state and so forth, and I'm looking at an infrastructure that is very crumbling in front of my eyes and asking myself, why is the government not taking care of this? I'm not talking about handout here. I'm talking about everybody benefits from it. We paying the taxes. Well, we ought to see the improvements on bridges and airports and high-speed trains, and we have none of that.
Dr Wilmer Leon (36:41):
You mentioned high-speed trains. I was talking to, I think it was the Jammu Baraka who, he was in China a couple of months ago, and he said to me that he was on a bullet train and the train was traveling 350 miles an hour, and he had a glass of water that he had sat on the floor and the glass of the cup wasn't even shaking. And folks, 350 miles an hour, the train is traveling. We have nothing thing, but we're the exceptional entity. We're the superpower. No, only in our own minds
Dr David Ouallaalou (37:41):
Sad. It is sad. I want just to make it clear, I know there are those detractors that they saying we criticize our country law, whatever this is, because we love our country. That's why we have to say what we have to say. We cannot, and I speak for myself, I cannot sugarcoat things because I am seeing where my country is headed. So to those who's saying why you hate America, you do this. You talk negative about America, it's nonsense. I just want to put that out for the record.
Dr Wilmer Leon (38:12):
I got an email yesterday from a listener to my Sirius XM show who said, why is it that you only have negative things to say about Joe Biden? And what you're doing is you're creating the environment for African-Americans to think it's okay to vote for Donald Trump. And my point is, to your point, I'm just telling you truth. It's all. And what you do with that information is your business. But I can't sit here and tell you I am a political scientist. I am not a political operative. So my training, my job, my obligation is to look at the data. What does the data say and tell you the truth, what you do with it or don't do with it. That's your business.
Dr David Ouallaalou (39:03):
Well, that is, it is, folks, this is what I said. I want you to be here to listen to what Dr. Leon has to say because there is a voice of reason from within the us. There are people like Dr. Leon that speaks the truth.
Dr Wilmer Leon (39:18):
There are a couple of us walking around.
Dr David Ouallaalou (39:20):
Yeah. Well, just because a lot of people think that all Americans, they don't think straight or No, no, no. They are with voices out there.
Dr Wilmer Leon (39:28):
In fact, to that, again, I'll go back to the point I made in the first part of the discussion about the polling. When you look at the data, 70% of Americans want an end to the Ukraine conflict. 80% of Americans want an end to the Gaza conflict. It's the leader. So-called leadership in this country that is not listening to the folks, the elected representatives are not representing the interests and the dictates of their constituents because there's an elite class in this country that are paying for the policies that they're receiving.
Dr David Ouallaalou (40:16):
Wow. Instead of having the politicians working for the benefit and welfare of their constituents for presenting Elsa. Folks, before I forget, make sure to prepare a question or two for Dr. Leon towards the end. He is willing to take few questions. So we will do this at the end. So let's turn our attention to another major conflict, which is the Ukraine, Russia. And I would like to have your input as to first of all, why the conflict was created to begin with. Why? Because it was created, right?
Dr Wilmer Leon (40:56):
It was the United States started this fight.
Dr David Ouallaalou (40:59):
Why?
Dr Wilmer Leon (41:01):
Because when you go back and you read BR New Brezinski and let, oh, here you go. The grand chess board.
Dr David Ouallaalou (41:15):
Oh, yeah. From Brzezinski. Yes,
Dr Wilmer Leon (41:21):
The Grand Chess board. And oh, this one doesn't happen between two ages. He was, Abe and Brozinsky as a phobe was very instrumental in helping to create the American foreign policy mindset. And so when you look at the former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, Margaret, not Margaret, the woman
Dr David Ouallaalou (41:55):
From which country?
Dr Wilmer Leon (41:56):
From this country before Hillary Clinton. I just draw the short woman think.
Dr David Ouallaalou (42:01):
Madeline Al Madeline. Yeah.
Dr Wilmer Leon (42:04):
Madeline Albright is a disciple of Brzezinski. Hillary Clinton is a disciple of Madeline Albright. So that's the ideological tree that a lot of these folks come from. It is said that Brzezinski is the one that discovered Barack Obama when Barack Obama was at Columbia University. So Barack Obama comes from that brozinsky mindset. So Russia has been a perceived enemy since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And once Vladimir Putin took control of the Russian economy, and meaning that the United States was no longer going to be able to control the Russian economy and extract the profit from it, that American business elites were anticipating and financiers were anticipating, then Russia became an even bigger threat. And so there's been this whole Russia phobia mentality within the United States, and that now makes its way into Tony Blinken and that whole crew. I mean, we can go back to the Cold War. So Russia is a convenient enemy coming out of the Cold War and all. So there's been this distant memory that has now been brought back to the forefront that Russia is an enemy, ignoring the fact Russia wanted to join nato.
Dr David Ouallaalou (43:42):
That's correct.
Dr Wilmer Leon (43:43):
Russia wanted to engage and work cooperatively with the West, but Russia was not going to be a puppet. Russia was not going to to allow the United States to use it as it has used so many of its other allies. And that was something that the, and then to the military industrial complex, Russia becomes a very convenient enemy. And that's of course 30,000 foot answer to your question.
Dr David Ouallaalou (44:21):
You're right. One more, I mean, the most troubling to me was after the end of the Cold War, Naro expanded threefold. He moved from 50 million to 31.
Dr Wilmer Leon (44:38):
What did Secretary of State, the guy from Texas, I drew a blank on his name.
Dr David Ouallaalou (44:44):
Oh, the Secretary of State was the James Baker.
Dr Wilmer Leon (44:50):
James Baker promised Gorbachev.
Dr David Ouallaalou (44:54):
That's true.
Dr Wilmer Leon (44:57):
Baker promised Gorbachev, if Gorbachev allowed for the reunification of East and West Germany, NATO would not move any further eastward. And not only did Baker sign onto that, France did, Germany did, and I think one other European country signed onto that as well. And when people want to know why is there this conflict now? Well, the United States violating that commitment that James Baker made goes a very long way. And to those listening who will say, well, that was never a treaty, that nothing was ever signed, therefore it is irrelevant and isn't tangible isn't real. I think it's the international law case of Greenland v Norway. That was back in the thirties where the international court said Any commitment made by a representative of a country is a binding commitment. And so James Baker promising Gorbachev, nato, that was as good as a, it was a verbal contract. It was a verbal agreement and has standing in international court.
Dr David Ouallaalou (46:34):
Well, of course, the bad part is that the optics of it internationally when we won back on our word as far as what we're doing. So this is why, I mean, a lot of us Americans do not understand as to what is at the heart of this conflict and who created it to begin with
Dr Wilmer Leon (46:52):
The United States
Dr David Ouallaalou (46:53):
Thinking what we just have nothing to do. We're going to go look for conflicts around the world. Well, we've been in conflicts for years. The Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, you name it. And what do you and I as Americans, what have we gained from that? What was our interest? Death, exactly.
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:11):
No debt, death and the decline in the American standard of living. My son will be 22 years old on Sunday. He has never known a day of peace in his entire life. Wow.
Dr David Ouallaalou (47:28):
Wow. That's very sad. And that's just one example. A lot of people that age will be, which is, but that becomes also on us weer as citizens. If we're not informed, how do we expect to influence change?
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:49):
Well, it's very difficult to influence change when journalism in the United States has become co-opted by the military industrial complex. So the New York Times is known as the paper of record. The invasion of Iraq was sold to the United States, to the citizens of the United States to a great degree through the New York Times. The CIA was filtering those lies and that disinformation and that misinformation to the American people through the New York Times, through the Washington Post, through M-S-N-B-C and other network outlets. So it becomes difficult for the American people to formulate any kind of rational, reasonable understanding of the geopolitical landscape when all they're being fed is narrative. When you turn on M-S-N-B-C and you look at who many of their paid contributors are,
(49:02)Their retired generals, they're retired members of the intelligence apparatus, former directors of the CIA and all of these other organizations. They are former speech writers from the White House. All of the people that have spent their careers creating and articulating a narrative, they've left their positions in the government, they move into the private sector on the television, and they do what they do, what they've been trained to do, communicate the narrative. And anybody that comes that tries to break through with a contrary narrative fact-based contrary narrative is de platformed, is ignored, is called a conspiracy theorist. Which by the way, that term conspiracy theory was created by the CIA in response to those that were saying that John F. Kennedy was not murdered by a lone gunman. So anyway, I'm going off on a tangent. I know.
Dr David Ouallaalou (50:08):
I'm sorry. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. So yeah, it is, I couldn't agree more. And this is again, what concerns me the most about the narrative that I am really following closely emanating from Washington vis-a-vis China. That is my, concerns me the most because I can just see where this is going to go. Now.
Dr Wilmer Leon (50:28):
The spy balloon.
Dr David Ouallaalou (50:29):
The spy balloon, that's correct. The
Dr Wilmer Leon (50:34):
Spy balloon.
Dr David Ouallaalou (50:35):
What's next? Now, the AV is going to be spying if it's on the American roads. So now let me go back to the Russia aspect.
Dr Wilmer Leon (50:46):
Oh, don't forget the Chinese cranes. Now China's going to use the cranes at the American ports to disrupt our economy. That's the latest China story.
Dr David Ouallaalou (50:59):
It's pathetic. It is pathetic. So now for the Ukraine Russia conflict, by the way, I found out that President Biden is in Ukraine. He went to visit for Ukraine.
Dr Wilmer Leon (51:14):
Really? He's there now.
Dr David Ouallaalou (51:15):
I found out. And he met with the wife of Navalny,
(51:22)But he called her a national hero. Well, most Americans do not know the background story of that's for another day as far as conversation. What I wanted to mention here, weer is now you and I know because you've been talking about it. I've been on your show so many times, we addressed this so many times and it became evident that Ukraine has lost, Ukraine is a failed state. Yes. So why, in your opinion, why is the EU and the United States still pushing through with more money and now they want to even send them more weapons?
Dr Wilmer Leon (52:07):
Because the eu, for the most part, is the lapdog of the United States and the leaders of the eu. And an example of that, if you go back to when Olaf Schultz came to the United States and he was standing in a press conference with Joe Biden, and a reporter asked Joe Biden about Nord Stream, when are you going to turn up Nord stream? And Biden said, that's not going to happen. The reporter said, with Olaf Schultz standing right next to him. The reporter said, well, Mr. President, how can you stand there and say that that's not going to happen when that's not our pipeline? And he just looked at the reporter and said, trust me, that's not going to happen. Wow. And then about a week after that, boom, Nord Stream blows up. So the United States, it's analogous to a mafia operation. These are gangsters. These are just gangsters.
(53:11)And so there's now becoming an increased amount of unrest in France, in Germany, because the people, the farmers, the workers, they're watching their countries be watching the subsidies that their governments were providing. The farmers go away as billions of dollars are being sent to Ukraine and Ukraine, grain is coming on the market and lowering the price for French farmers and German farmers and whatnot. And so there's becoming an incredible amount of unrest in the street, and they can no longer, the French can no longer just say, let them eat cake because they don't have any cake to eat. As they look at the cost of their natural gas in the debt of winter, they're paying what, three and four times more to heat their homes in Britain, in Britain, in Germany, in France. And they're watching their standard of living decline as austerity measures are being imposed on these citizens at the behest of the United States. And people are saying, why? Why?
Dr David Ouallaalou (54:43):
Indeed? Indeed. Because I have family lives in Europe. So I kind of talk to them once in a while and they kind of baffled by the policies in both. I have the family lives in Germany and France. I talk with them kind of like, we don't get it. We don't get it.
Dr Wilmer Leon (55:05):
One of the objectives of the Ukrainian conflict was the de-industrialization of Germany,
Dr David Ouallaalou (55:12):
Germany.
Dr Wilmer Leon (55:14):
And now some of these German companies are moving to the United States, for example. Who would've thought that? Michelin, the French tire company, Michelin, that has, I think two factories in Germany, they've closed those tire factories. And I think they're looking to move those factories to the United States. And I think Porsche is looking to move the assembly of more Porsches to the United States.
Dr David Ouallaalou (55:46):
Wow. Wow. That's traveling for Europe. When I was in Poland last time, a few months ago, I had some conversation with some Polish people there, and they did made it clear to me that they don't understand what the policies of their governments. Well, of course I had to dig into some stuff only to find out who the US ambassador to Poland. You know who it is, right?
Dr Wilmer Leon (56:09):
The ambassador to Poland? No,
Dr David Ouallaalou (56:11):
Of the United States to Poland. Poland is the son of Brezinski.
Dr Wilmer Leon (56:16):
Oh, I did that. Okay.
Dr David Ouallaalou (56:18):
It's his son. His son.
Dr Wilmer Leon (56:22):
Mika's brother.
Dr David Ouallaalou (56:23):
Brother, yes. He is the US ambassador too. And that I put the two and two together and figured, now it makes sense to me as to why Poland is embarking on the people do not want any issues with Russia, but the government is pushing the policy because US Ambassador following the footsteps of his father. You're right. You are right. That's exactly. Now they got a little better. Well, maybe it's too late for all this. So now the idea of how it's going to end, how in your opinion, this conflict?
Dr Wilmer Leon (57:01):
Well, I wish I were able to empirically answer your question. Now you're asking me my opinion, and the only thing that I can see is that the United States is in this until the last Ukrainian dies. Because Russia is not going to stop. Russia has no reason to stop. The United States is doing everything it can do to continue to see to it that this conflict continues. And the folks that I've talked to about this that understand Russian strategy and Russian capabilities will say Russia hasn't even started that. Looking at the size of Russia's military and their ability to bring up forces, and this is the very kind of war that Russia has been preparing for 20 years an artillery battle. This is what they have been planning for and stockpiling and stockpiling and stockpiling. And that's why NATO is running out of ammunition. Russia just keeps sending shells.
(58:31)So I think at the end of the day, if there is a Ukraine left, it's going to be, I don't know about the size of London because Russia is not going to relinquish any territory that is taken. And why should it? The United States has forced its hand didn't want to do. And when I say it didn't want to do this, and folks say, Wilmer, what do you mean? Well, look at the Maidan coup in 2014, and look at how long it took. It took I think eight years for Russia to get involved because as the ethnic Russians and the Donbass kept begging Putin, will you please step in and stop this? Kept saying, no, no, this is not my, and then finally, when he understood that he really was left with very little option, he went in and once he went in, I'm not leaving until I accomplish what I set out to accomplish Deify Demilitarize. And you are not going to become a part of nato. And so they're going to keep moving forward. And it doesn't look like the United States is trying to find any way out. So all I can say to that is they're going to go till it's over, till there's nothing left to claim.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:00:03):
Till the last Ukrainian,
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:00:04):
Till the last Ukrainian dies.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:00:07):
And before I forget, it used to be it was a secret memo that was released back in 2011. At that time, I was still in Washington. And the plan has already been in motion per se, because a lot of people do not know that this started from 2007 all the way through to 2014. Of course, when the co happened, then it keeps going to what it is.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:00:31):
Was part of that the yet means yet Memo from, was that Burns?
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:00:37):
That is correct.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:00:38):
Okay. From
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:00:39):
Williams. And it was another one that was, because that was in a reflection of the book that was written by none other than Michael McFall. You know who Michael McFall? What was the book about? A short version of it? The seventh Key Points of Taking down a regime. So this is Michael mc ambassador himself, which one day I remember he put something on Twitter and I kind of answered him straightforward, never heard back from him because I faced him with facts regarding this because I was aware of the issue on
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:01:14):
What's going on. And there's another book by Blinken Ally versus Ally, which talks about the conflict over pipelines. And so in fact, you can see here it is Ally versus Ally. Interesting. Tony Blinken wrote that years ago. It might've been, yeah, wrote that years ago.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:01:42):
Yeah. Very interesting. And speaking of the pipeline, I dunno if you were aware that Sweden officially closed the investigation on pipeline.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:01:52):
Yes.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:01:53):
Well, how can we close an investigation without knowing who the corporate is? It doesn't make sense.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:01:59):
That doesn't make sense. And that also goes to a comment that President Putin made in his interview where he said that the whole pipeline was not destroyed. There's one pipe that is still functional. He says, why don't you turn that up? He says, you can get Russian gas to Germany through Poland. Why won't you turn that up? You can get Russian gas to Germany through Ukraine. Why won't you turn that up? So it's not that these problems can't be solved. And you mentioning that Brzezinski's son is the ambassador to Poland. Now I understand part of that question, but all of that factors into, it's not that the problems can't be solved, they can be solved simply, but the United States does not want those solutions.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:02:53):
Yeah, well I look at it like what the Chinese proposed, the 12 talking points regarding the piece, and we rejected it right out immediately. We kind of like, no, we don't want the Chinese to get involved into this. But I read that proposal. Well, it makes perfect, makes perfect sense to me. But again, it's because the US is not going to allow that one. So alright, let me see. Any question from you guys? Oh, by the way, I'm seeing someone here I didn't see for a long time. Usually good to see you as always. Let me see guys, if you have a question for Dr. Leon, it'll be happy to answer this one here for you. And I am hoping you guys, there was some super stickers earlier. I couldn't read it. I am so sorry, guys. Let me see if there is a question here. Well, here is first one. I want to say thank you to Nick. Nick h thank you very much for your supers sticker. Truly, truly appreciate it. It was another one with a question. I believe if this thing in the chat box weer gets overwhelmed with when you have almost 800 people, it gets overwhelmed. But I
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:04:10):
Understand.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:04:11):
Yeah, the guys usually put cues. So I know it's a question for you, and I'm scrolling down quickly here to see if that pops up. And I hope you guys enjoy Dr. Leon. We're going to have him back here. Don't worry. He'll be back here. Well, thank you.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:04:29):
Thank you,
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:04:30):
Thank you. So he'll be back here. And I'm very grateful that you were able to, yeah. Here is one here. One word. Dr. Leon, our Congress members, they want you run for Congress.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:04:42):
No, they don't.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:04:43):
Corrupt. Brian, you are right. Thank you so much, Stefan. Truly appreciate it. I appreciate it. Let me just see one more here. If there is question, and I'm just scrolling down quickly here to see, yeah, interesting where things are headed. I mean, it is saddens me to see what our country is becoming.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:05:11):
I agree with you, a thousand percent.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:05:14):
Really sad. And
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:05:16):
Also,
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:05:17):
Oh, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. I want to say thank you here to Stefan Hayes again. You put Chinese balloons delivered clean T-shirts and dog food like treats and Biden blaber about Ukraine, and people helped genocide in Palestine. Thank you very much for sharing this, Julie. Appreciate you. Super sticker. Yeah, go ahead. One more.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:05:40):
No, just that a lot of the power projection and the violence, the war that the United States is engaging in on foreign soil also contributes greatly to the mindset of a lot of people in this country. And the violence that we see here, we can't really separate the two. And so in a lot of our urban centers, and we see a lot of these atrocious acts being engaged in by American citizens, some of that, what contributes to a lot of that is America is a violent country. It has always been a violent country. It was born out of conquest, it was born out of the United States, imposing its will on indigenous people, murdering those people and taking their land. And that's who America is. That's what our history tells us. And so you cannot separate the violence that we see at home on the domestic front with the violence that the United States is engaged in internationally.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:06:55):
Indeed, indeed. There is a question from Army with harmony, and thank you so much for your super sticker. The question is how might the US respond to hi group? That is, we don't use the term here because you know how it is weller cutting submerged internet cable, in your opinion, if the us,
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:07:19):
I'm not familiar with the cutting of submerged internet cables, but what I'll say to you is that it was reported as far back as last month that the Saudis and Anah were about to engage in a peace plan. And the United States stepped in and told the Saudis, under no circumstance are we going to allow that to happen. And then it was just, I want to say about 10 days ago that the Saudis came out and said again, we've reached a peace agreement with Ansara, Allah. And the United States said, no, we're going to designate Ansara Allah as a terrorist organization. And so if you engage in that peace agreement, you will be sanctioned. And one of the big issues between the South had to do with the payment of Yemeni civil servants. They wanted to be paid and they wanted back pay. And they were negotiating that point. And the United States said, once we designate them as a terrorist organization, you'll not be able to engage in financial transactions with them.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:08:46):
Interesting.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:08:46):
So I'm not sure about the internet cable cut that. I'm not aware of that. But what I've just described is kind of the bigger picture on how the United States is why when peace is on the horizon, does the United States turn to darkness? Well, I mean that's rhetorical.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:09:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Here is my last question here before we let Dr. Leon go from po. So thank you so much for being here. Question, not that it'll happen, but if war breaks out with China, with the United States, also fight with North Korea because North Korea will come to the China's aid.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:09:35):
Unfortunately, I think the answer to that question is yes, and that will result in the end of South Korea and could possibly result in the end of Japan because the military support agreements, I believe are such that it's not just North Korea. South Korea would be the United States point of access there and Japan would be brought in as well. And I think Kim Jong-un is ready for that conflict.
Dr David Ouallaalou (01:10:11):
Yeah, that guy doesn't bluff. That's too much. That's too my ledge. He doesn't bluff. Well, Dr. Leon, I can't thank you enough for really carving out this time for me here. I truly appreciate it. Alright guys, I hope you all enjoyed this. And again, I wanted to bring someone from here, the United States, so you can hear it with your own sort of ears per se. It's because someone with the rationale thinking, logical reasoning, and there are voices of reason here in the United States. Not all are bad, but we all know if the government sometimes does things not on our name, whatever the government is doing in my name, I don't even agree with this government. I don't even recognize whatever. So that just, and this is the reason why I wanted to extended the invitation and I was very, very, or I am grateful that Dr. Leon agreed to come on on our show. We'll bring him over again. As always, guys, I hope you all enjoy this and I look forward to seeing you next time. As always, remember, geopolitics impacts your daily life in more ways than one. See you next time guys. Bye-Bye
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:11:23):
Folks. Thank you so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wilmer Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes that come out every week. Also, please, please, please, baby. Please, baby, baby. Please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media. You can find all the links to the show. There'll be, they are listed below. And remember that this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Because talk without analysis is just chatter and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wiler Leon. Have a great one. Peace. We're out
Announcer (01:12:19):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.

How WE Can Resist the Palestinian Genocide

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TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Drt Wilmer Leon (00:13):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. And I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which they occur. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events in the broader historic context in which they occur. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before us is the ongoing struggle for freedom and self-determination in occupied historic Palestine. And my guest is the award-winning journalist, broadcaster and political analyst who's based in Beirut, Lebanon, Laith Maru, as always, my brother. Welcome back.
Laith Mafour (01:12):
Thank you for having me. I was a pleasure to be with you.
Drt Wilmer Leon (01:15):
So let's start with the occurrence on Sunday, February 25th, where a 25-year-old active duty member of the United States Air Force, Aaron Bushnell, emulated himself outside the Israeli embassy in the US capitol of Washington dc This was a one airman revolt against the US backed genocide currently being perpetuated by Israel in the Gaza Strip. He has died from his injuries. Your thoughts Laith on the resonance. What's the resonance of this action in the region?
Laith Mafour (02:00):
Well, first off, I would like to send my condolences to the family of Aaron and to all American soldiers that are thinking about the consequences of the orders that they're receiving from the depraved leadership in the United States. Aaron right now has become a symbol in the region here he's called the Martyr by the people in the streets. If you look at the social media discussions that have arisen since his emulation and sacrifice for peace in Palestine, you could see so much art being produced right now with the visual of him on fire. And what does this mean for people of consciousness?
(03:02)I think right now the region was looking to see if there anybody in the west that will stand up against their violence of their governments and their participation in this genocide. And we saw finally now a human face to the American populace that they are not in alignment with the genocide being perpetuated in their name. Everybody here watched, of course, the live broadcast, the recording of that live broadcast that Aaron did. And there is now a clear just positioning between the selfless act that Aaron took and the security police that were holding a gun at him as he was burning alive. And this of course symbolizes on the one hand how the state and the police in the USA, how they respond to acts of sympathy and solidarity in general. And those images I think have entered now are human collective consciousness and it'll not be forgotten. It's the same as the images of the Buddhist monks that burned themselves during the Vietnam War. And of course American citizens that did the same during the Vietnam War that now are remembered as heroes of human consciousness. Aaron, while he's being attacked and by the Zionist right now after his martyrdom and by the American establishment and media after his martyrdom, he will be remembered 30 years from now by the American people as an icon of American humanism.
Drt Wilmer Leon (05:16):
Lathe, I appreciate you connecting the dots with the burning monk from 1963 because that's what exactly what I thought about when I saw the video. And for those that don't know, back in June 11th, I think it was 1963, there was a Vietnamese monk named thick Kwang Duk who a Buddhist monk who protested against the persecution of Buddhists in South Vietnam by the government of President dm. And some of the dots that I connected were that Vietnam was a failed French colony as occupied is a failed colony. And in both cases, connecting the dots here, the United States stepped in to try to save the genocidal colonies. And then this also made me think about France Fanon and his book Dying Colonialism, where he talks about the impact that this oppression has on the colonized and that once they finally come to grips with their oppression and how they must resist their oppression, they can't be stopped. And so errands, Aaron Bushnell's martyrdom from all the way across in the United States to me, shows not only the residents within Palestine, but what's happening around the world.
Laith Mafour (06:47):
Yes, definitely. Look, colonizers that are in Palestine right now are being emboldened by the support of the Western regimes. We see them filming themself committing war crimes and distributing it on social media because they believe that nobody will ever hold them responsible. And so to look at the demonstrations that are happening in the west and how it's been going on for five months now, almost these demonstrations and that they have either been ignored by western media and or have been repressed by the authorities in the West, we see, for instance, last week students, underage students coming out from high schools in New York and getting beaten up and arrested. We see the same happening in Italy where underage high school students walked out to end the war in Palestine. And again, they got beaten and arrested by the police in Italy. And so the population itself in the west who have awakened, who who've seen the same images that we all saw on this planet are reaching now a moment of realization that their own elite governments will refuse to represent them, refuse to listen to them.
(08:35)And this is why an action like Aaron's action of his martyrdom is going to be considered a turning point in this movement in the west. Now, he forced a discussion on the media that has been silencing the population for so long, and now more and more of the populace that are out in the streets will be willing to take more direct action. I say this because what Aaron did, maybe we don't need everybody to obviously emulate themselves, but it is the responsibility of specifically white people in the West to put their life at risk to end the genocide that is being committed in their name. And I would say this responsibility is even heavier on Jewish white people in the West. We've been seeing Jewish voices for peace or independent Jewish voices, all these organizations that are anti-Zionists doing regular demonstrations, blocking central square, whatever, a train station or going into a museum or what have you.
(10:10)These are all ineffective actions, number one. Number two, they fall way below the threshold of the responsibility of Jewish white people. Jewish white people have to put their life at risk and occupy apac, occupy the synagogues that are pitching hate from the pulpits and free Judaism from Zionists. This may mean they will go to jail. This may mean they're going to get beaten up by the police, but that's the least they can do. This is not the responsibility of a Palestinian Arab or Muslim American or even a black American where all these, our communities are already suffering from the repression of the states. Our communities are already counting their martyrs in Palestine and Congo and Sudan and Haiti. So if are viewers here that are Jewish, that are anti-Zionists or white that are anti-Zionists, you should take the lead of Aaron. And it doesn't mean that you need to emulate yourself, but you do have a responsibility to put your life at risk in order to be not sculpted in the genocide.
Drt Wilmer Leon (11:49):
To that point, what message gets sent when an African-American woman like US ambassador to the un, Linda Thomas Greenfield cast the vote against the peace settlement in the UN or US vice president, African-American woman, Kamala Harris, goes to Kom trying to pitch the US invasion of Haiti. Or you have members of the Congressional Black Caucus that are engaged that are coming to Israel on behalf of apac people like Congressman Gregory Meeks and some of the others. What signals are being sent? How is that being perceived in Lebanon? How is that being perceived in the region?
Laith Mafour (12:41):
You mentioned, what's his name?
Drt Wilmer Leon (12:45):
Gregory Meeks?
Laith Mafour (12:46):
No, the wretched of the Earth.
Drt Wilmer Leon (12:48):
Oh.
Laith Mafour (12:50):
And he obviously spoke to us about black faces with white masks. And this is what people see with the American ambassador of the United Nations. I mean, people are calling her Aunt Jamima, so she's selling the white flower on behalf of the elite. And so
Drt Wilmer Leon (13:18):
I wrote a piece where I called it minstrel diplomacy. It's black faces on white supremacy.
Laith Mafour (13:26):
Exactly. And this is what the west has been trying to do for the last 20 years with the bringing of Obama into power to give a black face to American imperialism and colonialism and destruction of seven countries under Obama. Of course, that never benefited anybody who's black or African in origin, nothing that came out of Obama helped the African-American communities. We watch this and I think the propaganda machine is collapsing of the West because there's nobody now that can be tricked the same way that people were tricked in 2008 to elect Obama. In fact, we see the Palestinian Arab Muslim communities in Michigan, for instance, saying that they will vote against Biden no matter what they want to punish him. So even trying to scare these oppressed communities in the US to vote Biden so Trump doesn't get elected, well, they don't care anymore. They all know these communities that it doesn't matter whether it's Democrat or Republican that's going to be in charge in the White House.
(14:49)They love to spill Arab blood and Muslim blood, and they will continue in their genocide of the Sian people. People are not going to vote for Biden, not because they think Trump is going to do better. They actually know that he is going to do the same, but they will refuse to be pawns in this duality of theatrics that is called American democracy. And I think the looking at the African-American community, they're also coming, many of them are coming to this realization also. And we saw the churches in the us, the black churches taking position for ceasefire and what have you.
Drt Wilmer Leon (15:40):
And that's a great, great, great point. There's another story that's in the Washington Post, Hamas leader hiding in Gaza, but killing him, risks hostages. Israeli officials say that they're closing in on yay the accused architect of the October 7th resistance, and they're questioning whether his death will help in the war. They say that that's up for debate and that he's hiding in this labyrinth of tunnels surrounded by Israeli hostages. And there's all this debate and discussion going on. How is this, what's the story there coming out of Lebanon as it relates to S, and hopefully I pronounced it correctly?
Laith Mafour (16:34):
Yeah, I mean, look, the Israeli propaganda has been flip-flopping for the last month about the whereabout of noir. For a while, they were telling us that he escaped through tunnels to Egypt, and he's hiding in Egypt while his people are being slaughtered by Israel. Now we're being told, no, no, no, he's actually underground. And he's not only using Palestinians as shields, he's also using Israeli POWs as his human shields. So the propaganda of Israel can't decide what it wants. It throws everything possible, every lie possible to catch the audience. We keep on hearing that Israel is that once the representative of Western civilization and that the attack on Israel is an attack on the West, and at the same time we're being told that Israelis are somehow indigenous to Palestine. So they can't make up their mind, and they will throw every possible propaganda point out there, and hopefully one of them will stick with some of the audience, and that's what they continue to do. So go ahead.
Drt Wilmer Leon (17:51):
Well, what about the subtle or not so subtle message that comes from stories like this one man versus the movement that in this Washington Post article, it says that the actions by the IDF cannot stop until he's captured as though capturing one man is going to have a dramatic impact on an entire movement. And from what I can discern, this whole one man versus the movement thing that left the station 75 years ago, Laith Maru.
Laith Mafour (18:36):
Oh yes. And the Israelis have periodically assassinated leaders of Palestinian resistance. Even just a few months ago here, the representative of Hamas in Beirut was assassinated through missiles in Al Southern suburb of Beirut. And Hamas still goes on similarly with Islamic shihad, similarly before them feta and the PLFP. I mean, look, the quest for liberation and the idea of liberation, you can't assassinate that, number one. And as we see Palestinians over the 75 years have built their structures of their organizations and the knowledge sharing and in ways that it doesn't matter if you assassinate one person, there's another 10 people behind them that have the same skills, have and have the same positionality, and they continue on. Of course, this is not to underestimate the human factor. I speak differently than somebody else. People like me differently than they like somebody else. And yes, sometimes assassinations of of resistance can have a deterrence, but not in the situation of Palestine.
(20:05)Palestine right now in itself is the symbol. And every Palestinian that is born knows how many of their families have been killed and raped and expelled. And why Israel? And this is enough fire to keep this struggle going till the end of this Zionist colony. And this is what is happening right now. We are witnessing the end days of the Zionist colony, and it's a bloody affair. It's going to be a bloody affair because the Zionists themselves and those who are behind them in the West are refusing the solution of South Africa. And they're also refusing the solution that aladin, as you'd call him in English, gave to the crusaders. So we will see a fight to the last man and it's going to be bloody. We're coming now to an end of the first stage, the direct war inside Gaza. We're now at the doors of the second stage, which is a wider war in the region that includes all the non-state actors, Hezbollah law, Iraq, and Syria resistance versus the United States and Israel. And this next second stage will last to four to five months. And as we get closer to the American election, we could be seeing a direct war between Iran and the United States.
Drt Wilmer Leon (21:45):
Hassan Nara, the head of Hezbollah, he said in a speech, I want to say it was last week, that this issue now has become bigger than just the Palestinians, that this is now a regional issue. And I interpreted that as kind of a clarion call, all adults in the pool. Now everybody's got to be in. Some people, I believe misinterpreted that as his kind of dismissing the Palestinian discussion, but I interpreted that as his saying. No, no, no. That's still at the heart of this struggle. But he's calling on everybody again, all adults in the pool. Your thoughts.
Laith Mafour (22:32):
Yeah, I mean, look at what's happening in Yemen on a daily basis. The bombings by the us, the UK on Yemen, on the capitol, on the had port, and the daily attacks by the Yemeni armed forces on American, British, and Israeli shipping boats and on the American and British Navy. So we've reached now the United States itself is admitting that they are now embroiled in the largest and most sophisticated naval battles since World War ii. This is not anymore just to confine to Palestine and the repercussions of this war. And as it rolls out even further, before it even opens up fully as a regional battle, we are already seeing historical things that have been set for 600 years. For instance, the naval supremacy of Europe and the United States and control of all waterways that has been now demolished by Yemen before we even got into a full war. It's done in 600 years of history thrown into the garbage, and now we're entering a new era in naval history and control and battle mechanisms and what have you. Similarly, as we now roll into a full war between Lebanon and Israel, we are going to see an end of air supremacy of the West, and we'll discuss that more as we go on with this hour.
Drt Wilmer Leon (24:36):
You mentioned just a couple of minutes ago about the end of the colony, and there are those who will argue, and I think this is a very valid point, that one of the reasons why the United States is backing the Zionist colony to the degree that it is, is because the West truly understands that the end of Zionist colonialism and occupied Palestine will bring about the end of colonialism itself, whether it's in Niger, in Congo, we pick a colony that this is the linchpin that as goes Israel, so goes the rest of colonization. Is that hyperbole or as we look at what transpired in Vietnam, as Dr. King said, the moral arc of history is long, but it bends towards justice.
Laith Mafour (25:35):
Yeah. Look, to make it easier for some of our viewers to understand what's the historical moment that we are living. At the end of the Soviet Union, collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States went into a stage of expansion, rapid expansion of its imperial borders, and try to swallow every state that escaped the colonial era after World War ii. And so Somalia, Yugoslavia, Iraq, blah, blah, blah, tens of states, Granada, all of those that got swallowed in by American imperialism. And this stage of expansion reached its furthest point with the capture of Ukraine and the war in Syria. So the fact that the United States lost the war in Syria, that was the furthest point of expansion of American imperial borders, taking one third of Syria and being defeated there. The war in Ukraine was the beginning of the stage of shrinking of the imperial borders, the Russia liberating east and South Ukraine, that meant the United States borders, imperial borders retracted.
(27:01)And today the war in Palestine, if Palestine is liberated and it will be liberated, I don't know at what cost humanly it'll be, but it'll be liberated. When the Palestine is liberated, it will force the United States to retreat to its natural borders. Okay? Palestine is the point of projection of power of the United States as an empire into all of Western Asia and into all of East and North Africa. And if the United States loses this base, it is forced to retreat to its natural borders, and that means an end of American imperial era. And this is why we see the United States fighting full force to maintain the Zionist colony because they know the outcomes of it will lead to the liberation of Palestine will lead to that all of Africa and Asia escapes its grip, and we will see revolutionary movements mushrooming across that continent. We already see how the West lost the Sahel countries, Maui, Burkina Faso and what have you that are entering into a federation Now. We're going to have a central African Federation of States that's going to encompass huge amounts of land resources and people that will rise into becoming a pole inside Africa. This is going to be just the beginning of the end of imperialism.
Drt Wilmer Leon (28:39):
There's another story. This came through Almadi English, Hezbollah Downs, Israeli Aires four 50 drone over South Lebanon. The Islamic resistance announced that its fighters successfully shot down a large air maze, Israeli drone, violating Lebanese airspace over the town of I TFA in South Lebanon using a surface to air missile. Again, hopefully I got that pronunciation somewhat close to reality. And they said that the downing of the drone could be seen with the naked eye. What is the significance of Hezbollah being able to down a drone, an Israeli drone of this type?
Laith Mafour (29:28):
This is the most advanced Israeli drone. It is the jewel on their crown of drone production. It costs them, I don't know, almost $2 million to produce one of them. And the Lebanese resistance shooting it down over the central part of Lebanon showed that the first off, they have the air defenses that can track this supposed stealth drone. And by the way, the Israelis had to shoot two missiles from what they call David's Lynch, or what do you call it? The swing sling Sling. David Sling, okay. It's such a blasphemous thing to name a weapon of war used in genocide in the name of our prophet David. So they used their most advanced air defenses to try to shoot down the anti-air missile from Hezbollah. They shot it from inside Palestine, probably stationed around 70 kilometers inside the occupied Palestine, so it doesn't get targeted by Hezbollah missile and shot it over Lebanon to try to stop these Lebanese air defense missiles that were trying to shoot the drone and they missed them.
(30:59)And so the drone was shot down, and within an hour or so, the Israelis started bombarding the area where the drone fell, including bba, the historical city in the RA valley in central Lebanon, a hundred kilometers away from the borders of Palestine. And they hit two different farms. They claimed that they were trying to target the air defenses of Hezbollah. And in retaliation, Hezbollah actually rained missiles and drones on an Israeli colony on the border of the West Bank, a hundred kilometers into occupied Palestine. And since the morning have bombarded the Maron airb base on top of Alger Mountain in north the Galilee, and the main control and command base of the Israeli military in the Gola and heights, hundreds of missiles since the morning. So we've now entered clearly a new stage. The Hezbollah has began showing some of its advanced weapons that up until now, it's been keeping for the right moment. And there's going to be much more surprises as this war breaks out on a full scale, but a hundred kilometers inside Palestine and a hundred kilometers inside Lebanon. That means both parties are willing and ready to hit their capitals. Tel Aviv and Lebanon. Beirut are at any moment could be the targets of these attacks.
Drt Wilmer Leon (33:00):
In fact, elaborate on that a little bit because it was,
Laith Mafour (33:08):
Sorry about that.
Drt Wilmer Leon (33:10):
It was a couple of weeks ago that Iran sent a missile into Pakistan. And the distance that missile traveled, as I understand it, was around 800 or 900 miles, and it struck its target. There are those who said then that that was as much of a message to the United States and to the west, that they could strike Tel Aviv because the distance between the two was about the same. And so now you've got the shooting down of this Israeli drone. You have Ansara Allah in Yemen that they're using, relatively speaking, very cheap missiles, something like $2,000 of missile to impact the global maritime trade through the Red Sea. The whole dynamic in the region has changed since the last Israeli Lebanese war. And if Israel couldn't beat Lebanon, then I don't know how they think they can do anything. Now, am I right to connect those dots?
Laith Mafour (34:29):
Oh, yes. Oh yes. And look, even Yemen, up until now, we were told by the commander of the American Navy in the region Central command in interviews to American media that not only is this the largest naval battle since World War II that the US is involved in, but this is also now the first time in history that a ballistic missiles are used to hit moving naval targets. So this is a huge advancement for Yemen, and it shows how greatly trained these Yemeni soldiers are. And they're using ballistic missiles. They're using cruise missiles. They're using drones and naval drones and submarine drones to hit American Navy ships, British navy ships and nobody can stop them. In fact, the Yemenis themselves shot down an MQ nine drone just last week, which is the most advanced American drone. It costs tens of millions of dollars. And then they also captured the most advanced American submarine drone, captured it as a whole Yemenis, and they brought it up to the beach, and they're going to hand it over to Iran and Russia who are going to reverse engineer it. And so Yemen in itself, we should not underestimate their capabilities. And I tell you, if this war breaks out in full, I think up until now, the Yemeni forces have been restraining themselves on purpose, not sinking fully American destroyers or aircraft carriers. But if we have a full war with Lebanon here, I bet you that Yemen will definitely be sinking American Navy ships.
Drt Wilmer Leon (36:41):
Help me with the history here. I think I've got a fairly rough understanding when we hear the name an Allah, I believe that that roughly translates into helpers of God and that the history is that as the prophet may peace be upon him, was going from Mecca to Medina. He went through Yemen and was assisted in his travels, was defended and supported in his travels by those who from that assistance called themselves the helpers of God. And so to me, going back to Fanan, this goes to the mindset of the individuals that you're engaging in. And so if folks have this mindset, this belief that they are truly helpers of God, you're dealing with an enemy unlike the American forces, who in many instances are in it for a job. This is one reason why these folks have been as the fierce fighters that they've been for the centuries that they've been. Again, is that hyperbole or am I connecting some dots here?
Laith Mafour (38:03):
No, you're connecting a lot of important dots. Anah means people in solidarity kind of so those who are in solidarity with God and the Yemeni people have a long history that much of you in the West don't know, but they are the original Arabs. The marriage between the Tite tribes and the Canaanite tribes is what gave us what we know as the Arabic people. It is one of the oldest civilization on this planet, queen Sheba and what have you. These are very faithful people that are very tough and humble at the same time, they were the first outside CCA to become Muslim and support the prophet Muhammad and stand in solidarity with him. And of course, they were known as some of the best seafarers in the world. They would travel from Yemen all the way to the Philippines and Indonesia and all the way down to Madagascar and Mozambique, and through their trade and good behavior and spread Islam and spread Islam without any fights.
(39:38)You couldn't say that they've ever forced anybody to Islam Yemenis. In fact, they're good deeds and they're good behavior. It's what spread Islam to the most populist Muslim country in the world, Indonesia and so forth. So the way that the West wanted to replace this honorable Arab that is symbolized by the Ani, by the oil sheikhs, the gluttonous oil shakes that the West created as the archetype of Arabs today, the Yei people with their outwardly behavior and stance to the world rebirthed, the honorable Arab to the world, and have frustrated this a hundred year propaganda machine that made the Arab into this filthy oil shakes that are hungry for prostitution and spending money.
Drt Wilmer Leon (40:44):
The Washington Post has reported that as ceasefire talks continue in Qatar, that the Palestinian Authority President has accepted cabinet resignations, president mah mud Abbas, the head of the Palestinian Authority. He has accepted the resignation of his prime Minister and of his cabinet, and they put this in the context of new, what they call political arrangements that are necessary to achieve Palestinian consensus. And I interpret this as really being a total misrepresentation of reality because as I understand it, particularly relative to this conflict, MABAS has almost no impact, has no control. The Palestinians don't trust him. And so he really seems to be operating as an emissary for the West as opposed to really being able to have any impact on the outcome of this conflict.
Laith Mafour (41:57):
Yeah, I mean, they're trying to create a Palestinian leadership before the war is even over. And of course, it's not going to go anywhere. The Palestinian groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLFP, all others other than feta have been constantly calling for a unity government for a representation at the Palestinian Liberation Organization for a disillusion of the Palestinian authority. And UD Abba as a good house slave is refusing all of these. And in fact, we heard them over the last few attacking the resistance in Gaza saying that they're kind of to blame for the deaths, repeating the racist words of his masters in Tel Aviv and dc. So he's irrelevant. And his government, whether they resign or not, I mean, what are they doing really? There's nothing that his government is doing except collaborating with the colonizer with a Zionist. And right now we can see that, for instance, Russia is trying to bring together the Palestinian factions. They've been invited to Moscow, the Fatma and Islamic Jihad. We'll see what happens there. That's a more logical path to creating a national government for the Palestinians than what the West is trying to do, which is irrelevant really.
Drt Wilmer Leon (43:44):
So it sounds as though in terms of what's being promoted through the Western media as in the Washington Post, that by going through the path of Mahmood Abbas, the United States to a great degree, is really negotiating with itself. And that because they don't have in the, they make it appear through their descriptions that they have the major players in the room. And I think I read today that a ceasefire is on the horizon.
Laith Mafour (44:20):
You put your finger on the right button there. You see, they've been saying that there's going to be a ceasefire yesterday. Biden is like, oh, we're going to have a ceasefire over the weekend. And Hamas is like, what are you talking about? We haven't got received anything. Who are you talking with? And this is what it is. There's a circle that's without using that awful word that you do it of Jordanian, Egyptian, Turkish Qari, American and Israelis, and they're all, so they're wishful thinking, but there's so much under so pressure that they're coming out. They're pressure
Drt Wilmer Leon (45:01):
From who, pressure from whom they're under so much who's under the pressure and under pressure from who
Laith Mafour (45:06):
They're under pressure from their own populace. They're under who's they? The west elite, the western elite, and the elite in Jordan, Egypt, qar and what have you. They're all under a lot of pressure. So they have to keep on pretending that there is on the one hand a ceasefire possibility and on the other that they can achieve it. Of course, the Palestinians are not going to surrender in Gaza, and the Israelis and the Americans are going to have to either end this war with a defeat and or actually continue to a larger war that's going to have a bigger genocide happening.
Drt Wilmer Leon (45:57):
There are reports that Danish pension funds are divesting from Israeli banks and companies that financial institutions across Denmark, they're facing new increased pressure from the Danish public to withdraw their investments. This is coming from the new Arab to withdraw their investments from Israel as demonstrations continue for the fourth month running in protest against the ongoing genocide in Gaza. What I see here now manifesting itself in Denmark, I connecting the dots to what transpired in South Africa with the Western move to divest pension funds and other interests from those doing business in South Africa. Are you seeing similarities here? And as we talk about the BDS movement, it seems now to be gaining a lot more traction. Speak to that, please.
Laith Mafour (47:06):
Yeah, this is one amongst many, obviously it's a huge success to have this withdrawal of all investments. We saw Spain stopped the sale and transfer of weapons to Israel. We saw Japanese arms companies cutting their contracts with arms manufacturers, and this will continue, hopefully, but look at the difference. We have to always, yes, we have to look for similarities with previous struggles, but we have to also recognize the differences during the war for the liberation of South Africa, Namibia and Angola from apartheid control and colonialism. We had Cuba come down with fighters to aid Angola and Namibia in their struggle. But we didn't see Americans come to the aid of South Africa militarily, openly, yes, they were supplying them with weapons, but they were not bringing their navy to fire at Cuban fighters. But what we see today is the United States, the United Kingdom, and pretty soon now we will be seeing European ships. 27 European countries said they were going to send their navies to support the US and the UK in their fight against Yemen. We will see now all of Europe fighting Yemen on behalf of Israel. So this is, I think the limitation of the comparison, the limitation of the comparisons. It seems that the West will fight all the way to maintain the Zionist colony. While they didn't do that, in the case of South Africa,
Drt Wilmer Leon (49:03):
There's another story. And this one they say was not widely reported if reported at all, Israeli operations in Gaza are in total chaos thanks to private privatization of logistics. They talk about in Tel Aviv that they begin a large scale invasion of Gaza on the 27th of October. And that this was basically a total failure that the Israelis really had no clue. They were in total confusion, they were in total chaos. And that this wasn't that widely reported. One of their retired generals, IDF, major general, its brick, said that there is a total mess that's not being talked about in the media. He was a veteran of the 1973 Yan Kippur War and the 1982 Lebanon War. He said, behind our excellent soldiers, there is total chaos, equipment, logistics, food, everything that needs to be moved forward is not working properly because the Army has entrusted everything to private companies. Because we had been led to believe before all of this started on the 6th of October that the IDF was the superior force, and that a lot of folks figured, oh, that once Hamas went in on the sixth, that oh, couple days this is going to be over. And now what we're finding is now they're struggling for survival.
Laith Mafour (50:49):
Yeah, they're struggling very, very hard. And remember, on October 7th, Hamas managed to take over 11 basis Israeli basis on the borders of Gaza and the main Shaak and Mossad base deeper in away from the border with Gaza and the main headquarters of the Israeli police special forces like the swat. And so they kept,
Drt Wilmer Leon (51:23):
Didn't you tell me that Israel lost 12 generals?
Laith Mafour (51:28):
Yes,
Drt Wilmer Leon (51:29):
On the 6th of October.
Laith Mafour (51:30):
So they lost 12 generals on the 7th of October and all their underlings basically also. And so these are the elite units that Israel had and the frontline units with Gaza destroyed completely. And since then, of course, everybody that they replaced these generals with has been practically slaughtered on the battlefield of Gaza, the ages of commanders in the Israeli military that are being declared as dead in the beginning of this war, the average age for a lieutenant colonel or major general were in their late thirties, early forties. Now the ages are in the early twenties, so this is around the 20 year drop in the age of officers in the core that the Israeli military has. So this means that they, they don't have the experience anymore. They don't have the knowledge of the battlefield. And now you add to it that you have mercenaries and private companies doing these supplies for Israel, and you clearly have chaos and add to it that you have American, British, French General sitting in the command center, everybody with their own views of things, it's a total mess. And it's showing that the Israeli military doesn't have options. They can't imagine options except genocide, which they are good at targeting civilians.
Drt Wilmer Leon (53:24):
In the couple of minutes that we have left, I want to give you the mic and allow you to speak to the West, speak to the world. This is an international program. What are the two major, two or three major things that you feel are not being communicated in the West that people really need to hear in order to have a better grasp of the reality in the region, to have a better grasp of the reality on the ground? Laith Maroth, the floor is yours.
Laith Mafour (54:01):
First thing I would say to our western audience is that they should be doing more to not only to help us in Palestine, liberation of it, but to get themselves ready for it's coming. For them, they already lost the right to speech, the right to media representation. The right to assembly is almost disappearing. And now, as we saw in the United Kingdom last week during the vote on the ceasefire brought by the socialist, this the Scottish Nationalist Party, they've also lost their right to representation, democratic representation at their parliaments. And if this war continues, as I am predicting, I'm telling you, it's going to be in the next few days, going to a much wider regional war with American and British soldiers coming back in coffins, people should be ready to even lose their possibility to have any representation. The democratic representation in the US and the uk, and people may think this is a little of an exaggeration, but let's just imagine it for a second that the United States goes into full war with Iran and all the access of resistance here.
(55:37)As the election is coming in the United States, will there be an election? I mean, Biden already knows that he is losing the election because of the Arab Muslim vote. It's already done. He wants to ban Trump. If he bans Trump, if he can't ban Trump, what is he going to do? We may find ourself in martial law in the West all to save the Zionist colony, and I would urge the public in the West to do something before we get to that point. Because if we get to that point and we're in martial law in the capitals of London, Ottawa and Washington, dc there's no way you can come back from that. It is the time right now to take action, to change the direction of these governments.
Drt Wilmer Leon (56:35):
If I'm not even going to think to put words in your mouth, but let me see if I can convey this a slightly different way. You're not predicting what's going to happen. You are looking at the current reality and discussing the possibilities of what could happen. And I remember talking with you, you and I talk all the time. I remember talking with you, I want to say last June, last July, last August. And you were saying to me, then something big is about to happen. And I kept saying to you, what are you talking about? You said, well, I don't know, but the sense on the ground is something big is about to happen. And you started saying that more even in September, you said something big is about to happen. And then October 7th happened and I said, that damn lathe boy. So it's a matter of being in tune to what's going on around you.
(57:49)And the other dot that I'll connect here, and again if I'm wrong, please correct me for those that don't believe that the Western governments would attack the media. Look at what's being done to Julian Assange, and that I believe is a clear signal the United States is trying to extradite from London, an Australian citizen who's never set, to my knowledge, never set foot in the United States, has no business in the United States, and they're trying to extradite him from London for violating American law, all in the attempt to scare Western journalists to not report reality. Am I wrong To connect those dots? Laith, Maro,
Laith Mafour (58:47):
You're not wrong, and I just want to be clear that I'm not a fortune teller, but because I live here and have been meeting with people, seeing the things that are happening, and because I lived 27 years in Canada and the United States and married to an American, my children are American and Canadian and have worked on these subjects and have seen the repression that came on myself for this work, I can tell you what is, we're not going to see the same things that happened 20 years ago. The expulsion of students, for instance, from universities, we're going to see them being shot as we saw chemical weapons being thrown at students at Columbia University. We are getting very close as we saw right now with the Vietnam emulation coming back right now, we could be seeing very any moment now American students being shot by the National Guard because they're demonstrating for the liberation of Palestine.
(59:56)This is the reality. And as we saw in Palestine here and the region expanding this war, if a war breaks out right now in Lebanon at a full scale, we're just still now skirmishes, the numbers of 40,000 dead in Gaza are going to be seen in one day. It's not going to be something. These numbers are going to explode, and this is going to drag us into those people that are demonstrating in the streets in the US and Canada and England. Are they going to demonstrate less or more when the numbers double and triple and quadruple in days of martyrs? Are they going to take more drastic action like Aaron or not? Of course they are. And how is the state going to respond? It is going to respond with more oppression and the minute the situation gets out of hand, we will see ourself in those possibilities of martial law being called in these countries.
Drt Wilmer Leon (01:01:04):
My dear brother, Laith Maru, I want to thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for joining the show.
Laith Mafour (01:01:11):
Thank you. Have a nice day.
Drt Wilmer Leon (01:01:14):
Folks. Thank you so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wilmer Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes that come out every week. Also, please, please, please, baby, please, baby, baby. Please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media. You can find all the links to the show. They are listed below. And remember that this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge because talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wimer Leon. Have a great one. Peace. We're out
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Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
 

Russia, Disarmament, and NATO

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TRANSCRIPT:
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand and to truly appreciate the broader historical context in which most of these events occur. During each episode of this program, my guests and I will have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events and the broader historic context in which they occur. This will enable you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live. On today's episode, the questions are why are American neocons hell bent on starting a conflict with Russia? What's going on in Ukraine? Who was Alexi Naval? And is NATO really still relevant? For insight into all of this let's turn to my guest. He's a former US Marine Corps intelligence officer who served in the former Soviet Union implementing arms control treaties in the Persian Gulf during Operation Desert Storm, and in Iraq overseeing the disarmament of WMD.
(01:31)His most recent book is entitled Disarmament In the Time of Perestroika, he is Scott Ritter. Scott, welcome. Thanks for joining me and let's connect some dots. Well, thanks for having me. And first of all, I have to say I love the name of your show in the intelligence business, connecting the dots is what we do. You never get the full picture. You get little pieces of information, and the question is, how do you connect them to get a proper narrative? So I like the idea. Well, thank you, Scott. I appreciate that. So the answers to each of these questions I think could be a show of their own, but let's start with in 2024, why are neocons so afraid of Russia? I mean, when we go back to this nauseating ongoing narrative, Hillary Clinton blamed Russia for hacking into the DNC server. No evidence was presented, but the narrative held and continues to hold in spite of scientific empiric evidence.
(02:39)To the contrary, the whole Russiagate fiasco, even now, representative Mike Turner from Ohio, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, he warns that Russia may be developing a space-based weapon that can target US satellites, NBC reported on the 19th of this month, alarming new warnings about Russia held zapper erosion. Nuclear power plant may be on the verge of explosion. These are just a few examples and we'll get to the specifics of each of these in a few, but just these are just some overarching examples of example, this Russia phobia. Why? Well, I mean, let's just look at historic examples. At the end of the Second World War, we had built up this economy that was a lot of people forget that before the Second World War happened, we had a thing called the Great Depression, and our economy was not the healthiest in the world, and we used global war as a way to mobilize our economy, to get it up to war footing.
(03:48)And there was a recognition that with 12 million guys coming home, we needed jobs. And if we tried to transition back to a civilian economy, we ran the danger of going backwards instead of forward. So we had to keep this military industrial complex up and running. But to do that, you need an enemy, you need a bad guy. Therefore, we have the Iron Curtain, Winston Churchill's, Fulton, Missouri speech in, I think 1946, the creation of nato and then the Red Scare. I mean, Russia has always been communism back then. Not just Russia, but communist China was always the perfect boogeyman to say, Ooh, danger lurks. We therefore now have a justification to militarize our economy and back this up politically by pointing to this threat. Back in the fifties, we had the bomber gap. You remember that?
(04:52)Read about it little before my time, but I got you. Yeah, I mean, we weren't around back. We're old Wilber, but we're not that old. But yeah, the idea of, I think the Russians took, had like a dozen bombers, but on a military parade, they just flew them over and over and over again in a circle over Moscow, and the people on the ground looked up and said, oh my goodness, there's a whole bunch of bombers. And so the CIA used this, the Congress used this to justify building more American bombers, even though once we got our satellites up, we went, there's only 12. There's not that many, but we never told the truth. Then there was the missile gap. John F. Kennedy was responsible for that one too. The Russians have missiles. We have to build missiles, missiles, missiles until we found out that they didn't have the missiles.
(05:40)But it didn't matter. We continued to build them anyways, and this led to the Cuban missiles crisis, which scared the live and you know what out of everybody and got us on the path of arms control, at least trying to contain, but we still called them the threat. That's all that's happening here. I can guarantee you this Wilmer, the neocons aren't looking for a war with Russia because as politically biased as they are, as fear mongers are, they're not suicidal and they know what the consequences of a war with Russia would be, but what they're doing is they're pushing it right up to the cusp of conflict, especially now when you have an American society that's sort of waking up to the fact that we're spending a lot of money over there when we need to be spending a lot of money back here at home, and people are starting to ask questions.
(06:30)So the way that you avoid answering these questions is to create that straw man that threat, the Russian threat. The Russians are evil. You said it perfectly. They interfered with our election. They're doing this, that and the other thing, and therefore we must spend 64 billion in Ukraine even though we can't spend $64 million in Flint, Michigan. I mean, it's this sort of argument that's going on, and this may seem as a somo or a juvenile question, but how dangerous is this? World War? I was to a great degree, started on a fluke. It is in many instances or in many minds attributable to the assassination of Archduke Fran Ferdinand. But that in and of itself isn't what started the war. There were a number of skirmishes and a number of tensions that were going on in Europe, and this was really just the spark that led to World War I.
(07:33)If my understanding of history is accurate. So do we find ourselves now, whether it be Russia and Ukraine, China and Taiwan, North Korea and South Korea, I mean the United States, what's going on in Venezuela as the United States is interfering in the Venezuelan elections? There are a number, of course, we've got Gaza in the Middle East, so we've got our hands, we're smoking at the gas station and smoking at a lot of gas stations. I'm going to steal that, by the way. I like that analogy. Just letting everybody know I'm using that from now on. Look, first of all, there's no such thing as a sophomore question. The one thing I learned, and I learned this from guys who are 20 times smarter than me, that the only stupid questions, the one you don't ask, you don't ask, but you're a hundred percent right. Barbara Tuckman wrote a book, the Guns of August, I think it was a PO prize winning book about how we got to World War I.
(08:38)And one of the key aspects to that wasn't just the different crises that were taking place, but how people responded to that and the thing that made World War I inevitable, even though everybody, if you read the book, everybody in the summer of 1914, nobody wanted war. Everybody believed it would be avoided, it was just suicidal. But then they got into this cycle of mobilization, mobilizing their societies economically and militarily for conflict because that's just what you did when you had a crisis. But it's okay, we're just mobilizing and we're not really going to war. What scares me about today is there's a recognition on the part of everybody that war would be suicidal, that we don't want this, but look at what we've done. We built up the Ukrainian military from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands and got it equipped, organized, trained to go to war against Russia.
(09:44)What do you think we were doing in Ukraine from 2015 to 2022 when we were training a battalion of Ukrainian soldiers every 55 days for the sole purpose of fighting Russians? This helped trigger a conflict. It got Russia to respond. Then we poured more money into Ukraine. What did Russia do? Mobilize People need to put on their hats and go, wait a minute, that's a word we don't want to hear. Russia mobilized not just the 300,000, but the process of mobilization continued to where they trained 450,000 volunteers since January 1st, just for everybody who's wondering what's going on in Ukraine, I know that's going to be later on question. Russia mobilized 53,000 volunteers. This is at a time when Ukraine's thumping people on the head and takes 'em to the front because nobody wants to fight. 53,000 Russians volunteered to go fight in the war since January 1st.
(10:42)They're coming in at 1000, 1,500 a day. And let me reiterate, that's not press gangs like they're using in Russia. G roaming the villages taking the men and now women from the streets and putting them into the military. That's not conscription, that's volunteer. And let me make this following point, it's even more interesting than that. It's not a bunch of 22-year-old red meat eating young men who are looking for adventure and romance. The average age of the Russian volunteer going in is about 35 years old. He's married, he has a family, and he has a job. It's the last person in the world that you'd expect to volunteer to go to a war zone. And yet they're doing it because they love their country, because they say we have to do that. What's going on right now is an existential struggle for the survival of Russia against the collective West, which again speaks to the danger of mobilization because Russia is a nation that is mobilizing and has the potential to mobilize even more if necessary.
(11:55)And this should scare the heck out of everybody in nato because right now you have nato. What's NATO talking about doing Wilmer mobilizing. They're talking about mobilizing. You have everybody in NATO saying, well, they never say, well, since we kicked this hornets nest and the hornets are now coming out and stinging us, maybe we should stop kicking the hornet's nest. They don't acknowledge the role they played in building the Ukrainian army to trigger this, but what they're saying now is, oh, because Russia now has mobilized and is defeating the proxy army that we built. We have to mobilize in turn. And you have Brits talking about general mobilization, Germans, and what this does. Now, you're a Russian. You're sitting there going, huh? They're talking about mobilizing. Well, if they do that, what do we have to do? I mean, Finland just joined nato. We really don't care until they put on Russia's border, pardon on Russia's border, on Russia's border until they put NATO troops there.
(12:50)Now Russia has to say, well, we didn't want to do this. But to give you an example, we keep the determinants mobilized. Wil Russia was compelled to create a new military district, the St. Petersburg military District, because Finland joined nato. There wasn't a St. Petersburg military district. Russia didn't have 70,000 combat troops on the finished border until Finland joined nato. Now, Russia has built mobilized Wilmer. They've put in 70,000 frontline troops divisions ready to march on Helsinki. Not because they wanted to, but because they were compelled to by the mobilization. Bringing Finland and Sweden into NATO is a form of mobilization. What we have here is we are moving in the wrong direction. We are accumulating military power in Europe, and at some point in time you're smoking at the gas station and it's going to go, I'm going to have to use that one, Scott. That's pretty good.
(13:51)Feel free. So this time last year, Ukraine was on the front page of every newspaper as of the morning of that we're taping this conversation. I don't see Ukraine referenced. And let me suggest folks, Reid, I don't know if you've read Nikolai Petro and Ted Snyder's piece to end the war in Ukraine expose its core lie. Let me read two quick paragraphs. This is how it opens. The essential argument used to avoid negotiation and continue support for the war in Ukraine is based on a falsehood. That falsehood repeated by President Biden is that when Putin decided to invade, which we can debate that word, he intended to conquer all of Ukraine and annihilated its falsity, has been exposed multiple times by military experts who have pointed out both before and after the invasion, that Russia could not have intended to conquer all of Ukraine because it did not invade with sufficient forces to do so. Scott Ritter, well, look, that was my argument all along. I kept saying they're only going in with around 200,000. Ukraine at the start of the war had around 770,000, and I went, the normal attack defender ratio is supposed to be three to one in favor of the attacker. And Russia's going in with a one to three disadvantage.
(15:21)Why? And the answer was because they weren't trying to occupy Ukraine. They were trying to, oh no, it's because Russians can't do math. Well, that too, I mean, I must be Russian because I'm not very good at math either. But my military math was like, this isn't adding up. But Russia's goal is to get 'em to a negotiating table. But I also then when Russia mobilized, because I basically said that Russia's going to have to get 500, 600,000 men to stabilize the frontline just to stabilize the frontline. And they mobilized to do that. And then people said, well, they're going to go on to Odessa. And I went, if they go on to Odessa, they're going to need around 900,000 guys to go on to Odessa and take those things. Russia's got about 900,000 guys there now. So they have enough troops to do that.
(16:09)But to go on to Poland, they're going to need about 1.5 million guys. They don't have that. And to go from Poland to Germany, they're going to need around 3 million guys. It's just basic military math. I mean, I could bore you all day about how I come up with these numbers, but it's the logistics of war. It's the scope and scale of the fronts, how to protect flanks, how to sustain offensive operations. The math doesn't lie. I'm pretty good with those numbers and Russia doesn't have it. And here's the thing. We know this. I mean, there's, look, I was a major and I only was a major for a little while. The main part of my military life was spent as a captain. Now, captains are pretty cool, but we're not seniors. We're not the most senior people in the world. So I admit that my perspective was a captain's perspective at senior headquarters.
(17:01)I saw the big picture, but I know enough to know what it takes to move troops. I was part of moving 750,000 troops into the Middle East. I know what a tip fiddle is, time phase deployment list, how to surge things in. I planned a core sized operation and had to plan on the logistics sustainability of that. I'm pretty good with the numbers. And so are the people in the Pentagon who are more senior than I am. People who see the bigger picture in more detail. They know what I'm talking about too. And they know no matter how much you talk up somebody, you're only as good as your logistics. I mean, you can have the Lamborghini, but if you ain't got the gasoline, you don't have anything. You have a piece of metal sitting in your driveway, but you got to have the gas and you got to have the gas sustained.
(17:53)You got to be able to maintain it, fix it. Lamborghini's brake. You got to have people trained to drive the Lamborghini. We can talk the Russians up all we want to about this, that and the other thing. But the bottom line is they're only human and they can only do that which is physically possible to do. And they don't have the troops to invade NATO to drive on nato. It's a 100% fabrication on the part of these people to justify their own mobilization. But everybody knows that Russia can't. Right now, Russia has sufficient troops to take Odessa to take cargo, to take Nikola, to take nepa, Petros, that's it. They can't do anything more than that. If they want to drive on Kiev, they're going to need another 300,000 troops up in Belarus that they don't have right now. So people just have to put on their thinking caps and think rationally.
(18:46)But right now, rational thought isn't in the cards. Apparently, you know a hell of a lot more about this than I do. You speak the language, you listen to the broadcast, I listen to you and other folks, but when I keep hearing statements about what Russia is going to do, the one thing that I never hear following that is evidence to support the position Russia wants to take over Europe. Europe, I've never heard President Putin say that. I've never read anything coming out of Russia that says that. All I hear is Nikki Haley and Joe Biden and Kamala there. There's a litany of folks that'll tell me that, but I haven't seen them present one video of President Putin standing at a podium or taking off his shoe like Stalin and pounding on the podium saying, I'm kicking your, and the other point is, 80% of what I see is defensive, not offensive. Here's another one you might want to use. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing. And it seems as Joe Biden would just shut the up.
(20:14)You using my language? I want to be a Marine. Marine. So, okay, you get my point, Scott. Well, here's the thing. If we go back to the January, December, 2021, January 22 timeframe, the US government's running, going, Russia is going to invade, Russia is going to invade. Now, they may have had some intelligence about Russia moving up, logistics and all that stuff, but I said, Russia won't invade right now. They said, why? And I said, because Russia is a nation and the Russian government is ruled by law. Believe it or not. It's their law. It ain't our law, but it's their law. And there are things that have to happen before you can talk about an invasion. I spelled it out. I said, first of all, Russia will not operate in violation of the United Nations charter. So they will have to come up with a cognizable case for invasion.
(21:12)And right now, the only one they have is preemptive self-defense. But to get preemptive self-defense, Russia will have to form a security relationship with the Doba, a formal security relationship, which will require the doba to not only declare their independence, but for Russia to recognize that independence. And then once Russia recognizes that independence, then Russia will have to go through, the President will have to go to the Duma, the Duma will have to approve something, go to the Senate, and then the Senate takes it back to the President, who then signs it. And then, and only then can we talk about military intervention. Now, this can take place in a short period of time, but I can promise you guarantee you that Russia ain't crossing the border until that happens. And if we're not seeing that happen, then there will be no military intervention and everybody's like, oh, scout up. Well, everything I said is 100. That's what happened in February. Russia began the process. Now, they did it in a very compact period of time, but every step that I said had to be taken was taken. Why? The rule of law. Putin is not a dictator. Putin is governed by the rule of law. He is not permitted to do things on a whim, and it's the same thing. If he wants to.
(22:30)Russian troops cannot operate outside of the border of Russia without the permission of the Duma. He would have to go to them constitutionally, say, Hey, I'd like to send troops to Poland because he can't just send troops to Poland. And then the Duma would say, why are we doing this? What is the threat? And normally, the only reason to justify it is Poland attacked us, so we have to wait for that one. And that's the thing. In order for him to do anything to begin mobilizing, he can't just, why didn't he have 300,000 troops already mobilized to go into Ukraine? Because to justify the mobilization, you need legal justification. He didn't have it, didn't have it, couldn't go to the Duma, couldn't justify it. None of the steps that would be required for Russia to attack Europe are in place. First of all, it's not in Russia's doctrine, their entire approach, and you hit it on the head, their defense.
(23:33)Now, the Russians are very good at the counter offensive, so if we attack them, Russian defensive doctors is to receive the attack, to destroy the attack and then to counter attack, and you counter attack to destroy the political center of the beast that attacked you. So yeah, if you want Russian troops in Warsaw, if you want Russian troops in Berlin, attack Russia. But otherwise, don't worry about it because it isn't going to happen. Don't start nothing. It won't be nothing. Won't be nothing. I like it. Alexi Navalny described as, and this is the description, the dominant Western narrative described as Russian President Putin's most formidable domestic opponent fell unconscious and died at polar wolf, Arctic penal colony. Biden described him as a powerful voice for the truth. What has happened to Navali is yet more proof of Putin's brutality. No one should be fooled. Well, the first thing is, if that was true, then what does this say about Biden's unyielding support for genocide in Gaza? What does that say about his brutality looking at the thousands, tens of thousands that people have fought, but that's not the point. If you could quickly unpack the myth of Alexi Navalny and the alleged poisoning and all of that stuff to kind of dispel this myth that Putin has assassinated his most formidable domestic opponent.
(25:25)Okay, first of all, we have to understand that the United States government has been in the business of trying to control Russian politics since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The decade of the 1990s was premised on an American policy of promoting democratic reform inside Russia. But what it means by that is by creating institutions that are controlled by the United States and banking and well, money is everything. And what we did in the 1990s is we started using non-governmental organizations. We'd set up these civic societies, these groups for furtherance of democracy, and then we would fund them through various fronts like the National Endowment for Democracy, which in 1983 was created to take over the covert political action functions of the CIA and make it more overt. The US Congress created it, funneled money to it. There's a democratic branch, there's a Republican branch they filter money in.
(26:28)The whole idea is again, to create fund, so-called democratic institutions that will lead to the restructuring of a society the way we want it to be restructured. The United States did that in Ukraine in 2014 with the, well, well, we did it before that. If you remember back in the early two thousands, we did a color revolution in Serbia. It was a very successful color revolution, and so we use that as a template that would then repeat it in Georgia, and then we repeated in Ukraine, remember 2004, 2005, the Orange Revolution. What a lot of people don't realize is that we were actively trying to do a color revolution in Russia in 2007, 2008. Why that time period? Again, I don't want to bore people, but this is very important. Vladimir Putin became president end of 1999. He won an election in March of 2000 constitutionally.
(27:24)He got to run for two terms, those two terms. It became clear that he was not going to continue the Yeltsin policy of doing whatever the United States wanted to be done, that he was going to try to reform Russia in a Russian image, which we didn't like. So we were pouring money into Russia through these non-governmental organizations for the purpose of carrying out a color revolution in 2007, 2008. The way we were going to do it is in 2007 was the parliamentary elections. The idea of that 2007, 2008 period was that Putin couldn't stand a third term as president, so he was going to do a swap with Dmitri Veev, who at that time was the prime Minister. So Putin was going to become prime minister. Veev would become president, but for this to happen, United Russia, which was Putin's party, had to win the parliamentary election.
(28:10)If the opposition could deny United Russia the majority, then Putin couldn't become Prime Minister, and if Putin couldn't become Prime Minister, then vie was vulnerable as president and you could pick him off and suddenly you've swept Putin out of power. This is literally the stated objective of the United States, and we started pouring money into Russia to promote this. One of the guys that got caught up in this was a young lawyer named Alex Navalny. He started working, it's CIA all the way. Look, the CIA trained some people. One of them was this Y Guinea albo. She's a journalist, but she went to Harvard, got groomed by the CIA, whether she knew it or not, but she left the balling, went to Yale. Well, later on, yes, he went to Yale in 2010, but Allach comes in in 2004 and she sets up this political parlor.
(29:05)Now she comes from Harvard, she got her PhD. She comes to Russia. The first thing she does is sets up this political parlor funded by British money coming from oligarchs funneled to her through British intelligence. And this parlor attracts these young people, including Navalny, and their job is to create a youth movement that can lead to a color revolution. That's his whole thing. Bottom line is it failed. It failed miserably. But Navalny was identified at that point in time as somebody with potentially started this anti-corruption campaign when mid became the president mid said, I'm against corruption. Naval went good. Let me help you. And he jumped on this thing. He got picked to go to Yale in 2010 where he was groomed by the CIA for what purpose. The next target was, okay, we couldn't stop Putin from doing the swap in 2007, 2008. What we can do now is keep mid in power.
(30:01)We can prevent Putin from coming back into office in the 2012 presidential election. Remember Hillary Clinton working the opposition, Michael McFall going in there. It's a big deal. And the volume, he became the front man for this. He went to Yale. He got dipped in, greased by the CIA and he got sent back to Russia. He's a CIA asset, straight up funded by British intelligence trying to overthrow or prevent Putin from coming back in power. Well, what's that thing? If you don't start nothing, there won't be nothing. Don't start nothing. Won't be nothing. Well, Navalny, I mean, before he went to Yale, he spent a summer in Kiro, which is a province about 800 kilometers northeast of Moscow. He got involved in restructuring the timber business, and it looked like he might've done some things that weren't so good. Normally that would be ignored, but he comes back and he immediately starts attacking the interest, the economic interest behind United Russia and Putin.
(31:04)And so you started something, okay? So they opened up a criminal case against him, and now you have this situation where Navalny is trying to make himself relevant. And look, he had some traction early on. He ran for Mayor of Moscow and he got 27% of the vote. That ain't bad, but he didn't have any traction outside of Moscow. He couldn't get the kind of numbers necessary to win, but he was a pain in Putin's side. So they started legal, this legal stuff against him, and it ended up in him being convicted of a fraud and embezzlement, some people call it politically motivated. There's no doubt it was politically motivated, but that doesn't mean that the crime didn't take place. He got a suspended sentence. He's on parole. Basically, they did this to keep him from running. They said, because you're convicted, you can't run for office.
(31:52)Something needed to happen. And so in 2020, he was poisoned, but he wasn't. Again, I don't want to get too much down the conspiracy track, but let me just put it this way. His medical records clearly show that he wasn't poisoned by Novak. This was a setup to get him out of Russia where he had been effectively neutered over into a safe area, and we know that he landed in Germany, he was flown into Germany, had a miraculous recovery by December. He wait a minute, had a miraculous recovery from Nova Chuck, which from my understanding is one of the most dangerous nerve agents created. I've read. It's so dangerous. It really can't even be used. The story was that he was poisoned at the airport. They poisoned his tea before he got on the plane. No, no. They poisoned his underwear in his hotel room.
(32:45)No, no. But wasn't that afterwards, because the story changed. The story changed a couple of times. That's my point that they said that they poisoned his tea in the airport. If I understand it, if you were to put Nova chuck in a cup of tea damn near everybody, at least in that area of the airport would be dead. Then they said, oh, they poisoned his water bottle on the plane. Nobach is so toxic that if they had done that, everybody including the pilot would be dead. Then they poisoned his underwear. The story kept, and this is also interesting to me, is that during all of these changing of the stories, Russia kept saying, send us the toxicology report so that we can investigate this. No toxicology report was ever presented. Yeah, again, I'm not a big conspiracy guy. I don't like it. I am Hamm's razor kind of person.
(33:48)But the problem is, CCAM razor points to this because we did get the toxicology, not the ones that the Germans and everybody were saying prove Novare, Wilma, you're a hundred percent right. This is the most deadly substance on the planet, but apparently it can't kill anybody. And by the way, whatever the new name of the kgp is, they're pretty good at assassinating folks as is the ccia. A, if they want you done, cancel your distance and cancel your five bullets. Five bullets in the front of your body tends to do it. You don't have to mess around with Novak. Okay? Yeah. I mean, just look. A Ukrainian pilot, a Russian pilot defected earlier this year to Ukraine and had two of his crew members killed as a result. I mean, he's a murderous traitor in the eyes of the Russians. They just found his body in Spain with five bullets pumped into the front of it.
(34:45)That's how the Russians get you. They don't go around doing this Novak stuff. But the point is this Nozek was a manufactured event. It didn't happen. What the German doctors who treated him released the blood work and everything. It showed that Navalny had a whole bunch of different health issues, some serious health issues, and he was also, they found evidence of antidepressants, which is okay. I'm not attacking him, it's not a problem, but it looks like he deliberately overdosed on antidepressants to generate the result that happened so he could be flown out. This was a pre-planned event. I just want everybody to understand that, that Navalny deliberately overdosed on antidepressants to generate a medical crisis that then got him flown out of Russia, because remember, he's on house arrest. He can't leave, but they got him out. What's the first thing that happens after his miraculous recovery?
(35:42)They fly him to Germany to a CIA safe house where a film crew comes in and they produce two feature length documentaries in one month, one month, including elaborate computer generated graphics, the whole thing. He claims that he came up with the idea while he was recovering from his and wrote it in a feverish in October, November. Wilmer, I've made a documentary and I'm making one right now. I can guarantee you they didn't get it done in a month. This was prepackaged by the CIA and British intelligence. And then he was, everybody's saying, stay in Germany. And he went, no, I'm going back. Why? Again? In 2021, these election cycles matter. In 2021, Putin was going to change the Constitution so that he could continue to run for office, and he changed the length of the term from four years to six years. He was restructuring the government and everybody who was anybody, including myself, looked at it and went, he's basically guaranteeing that the West will never subvert Russian democracy by doing this.
(36:49)He's iron proofing it, bulletproofing it. So the last chance to get rid of Vladimir Putin was to disrupt this effort. Navalny was picked as the guy to do it. Navalny job was to go back to Russia stand trial, and while he's standing trial, they're going to release these documentaries. The first one was called Putin's Palace, which was supposed to expose the corruption of Putin and everything, and the idea that it would generate so much unrest inside Russia that Navalny would be acquitted, put in, become the presidential candidate to oppose Putin. That was the dream. The problem is the people coming up with that didn't understand that Navalny had no support in Russia, never could never get it outside of Moscow. You couldn't get 5%. You might get 12% in Cabo, but that's it. You're not going to win election with 12% support. The numbers I saw for him was about somewhere between two and 5%, more on the 2% side.
(37:44)Nationwide, like I said, there's certain bubbles in there where you could get support, but nationwide, he wasn't going anywhere on this. So he goes back and the Russians, what's that? Don't want nothing. Don't start nothing. The Russians know exactly what's going on. I mean, look, Pesco, who's the pre spokesperson in October of 2020, he said, we know what's going on. Navalny is working with the CIA. We know this. We know everything. So they brought him back and they knew what his plan was. They knew what he was supposed to do. So they quickly turned just really quickly because that's what President Putin said to Tucker Carlson when he talked about it's good that you applied to the CIA and that they did not accept you. He was sending a message. I know who you are. I know what you do. Yeah, well, so here's the deal.
(38:39)The Russians said, we're not playing this game anymore. We've letting Navali do this stupid stupidity because he's irrelevant. But now you're playing, playing a serious game of messing around with our democracy. So we're just going to end it. The vol, the hammer's coming down, boom, nine years, boom, 30 years, you're in jail for life. Goodbye. Get out of here. Now they did that, and then a lot of people just came out and Bill. Then the Russians turned around and said, okay, we know he's your spy. Do you want him back? We'll trade him for a guy that we want back from Germany. Now, here's the part that gets conspiratorial two days before he died, minute before you get there. Isn't there also footage of Navalny or one of his representatives, but I think it's him talking Tom, I six, about money, about how much money he's going to need to sustain this democracy movement in Russia.
(39:38)2012, Navalny deputy met with a member of MI six in Moscow. Again, how did they get the video? Because the Russians know everything. I mean, when people are sitting there going, Evan Sitz isn't a CIA spy. He couldn't be. I just want to tell you right now, ladies and gentlemen, the Russians have him on film talking about this, about receiving the documents. It's conspiratorial. Putin was very clear about it. He's a CIA spy and Navalny, the Russians know who was paying for him. They know this. So they're sitting there going, we want to give them back. But that's the last thing. The ccia A wants. Why? Because then they have to admit that we're messing around in Russian politics politic. They can't. So this is the part that, this is what I firmly believe, because I believe that Navalny was induced by his handlers to deliberately overdose on depressants in 2020 to get him out, to get involved in the CIA operation to come back in and disrupt the election.
(40:37)That is clear. Two days before he died, he was visited by his lawyer. Some people say that his wife was there as well, and they brought medication that's documented. Have you seen Godfather two so many times? I can't tell you how many Freddy five fingers. Freddy. Five fingers. Okay, so Tom goes to talk to Freddie five fingers. You just take a nice warm bath, you slit your words, nice warm bath, open up your veins with the woman. The family will be taken care of, throws the cigar away, shakes his hand, and it's understood. Navalny daughter got a free ride to Stanford courtesy of Michael McFall. Navalny wife now has been appointed. I mean, she was at the Munich Security Conference ready to step in before he died. He died. The script comes in, boom. She's now the new figure of the opposition. She's not tainted by crime.
(41:32)She's at Navalny. That's a headline in the Washington Post today. Yeah, she's the new face of the opposition because Navalny had been neutered by the Russians, but as long as he was alive, he was a problem for the CIA. So Freddy five fingers, that's all I'm going to say. He was told Your family will be taken care of. All they have to do is lie in the tub and open up my veins, and it's a quiet, painful day. He overdosed on the drugs they gave him. He went for a walk and he died, didn't come back. His family's taken care of, and that's what I believe happened. I believe that the CIA knocked this guy off in prison. He took a long walk on a very short pier. Yeah.
(42:20)So you've got Alexander the Butcher, sarky Ky, the commander of Ukraine's Ground forces. Since the start of the military operation, he is now the new military chief after Emir, Zelensky replaced zany in this leadership shakeup. What does that tell us at this stage of the game? What does that type of move tell us? Are they transitioning now to another phase of this process, recognizing that the war is lost? Again, everything has to have a setup because nothing happens in a vacuum. Ukraine is called the greatest democracy in the world. We know that's not true, but it's called the greatest democracy in the world by America. We overthrew it in 2014. Yes, we would know. But the key aspect of democracies is civil military relations, meaning that the civilian is the commander in chief, and the military always obeys the orders. Let's look at American history.
(43:32)George McClellan, Abraham Lincoln McClellan was the commander of the army of the Potomac, and he thought he knew how to win this war, and Abraham Lincoln disagreed and fired him. And McClellan said, sir, yes sir. And he resigned because civil military relations, that's what you do. McClellan went on to challenge Lincoln in the elections and lost, but he didn't launch a coup. That's not what you do. Douglas MacArthur, during the Korean War thought he knew how to win the war, wanted to drop atomic bombs on China. Harry Truman said, Nope, that's not how we're going to do it. And they met in Midway, and Truman fired him, and MacArthur went, sir, yes sir. And he resigned. That's what civil military relations supposed to be in a democracy. Zelensky met with zany, who's the commander of the Ukrainian Armed forces, and he said, I don't like the fact that you're articulating policy that goes against what I want.
(44:31)I want to be more aggressive. I have to go out and sell this conflict to the West, and I have to sell it, that we're going to regain all the lost territory. And you, as the general is supposed to say, sir, yes, sir, but you've gone out and given interviews behind my back saying it's a frozen conflict, a stalemate. I can't do that. You're fired and solution. He said, no, I'm not. And Zelensky went. Zany said, not only am I not fired, but here, let me show you this. Here's my picture. Given a medal to a right sector, Nazi from the organization, said, they're going to hang you from the deck, and if you ever go against this, and behind me is a picture of step on Bandera and the right sector flag. Go ahead and fire me now. Zelensky, you're a dead man walking.
(45:14)And when Zelensky started calling people up saying Aslu saying no, one of the people he called up was Ky, who said, I just want to tell you right now, Mr. President, myself and the entire Ukrainian general staff support slu, you fire 'em. We come marching, it's over. And now Victoria Newland, and everybody's back there going, can't do this, guys. We're supposed to be giving 64 billion to the world's greatest democracy. We're against coups, and you're getting ready to launch a coup. She flies in panic, and so she cuts a deal. She explains to everybody, if you do this coup, we can't support you. It's over, and then you're all going to die. And the generals realized that, and they went, yeah, we understand that. Zelensky realized that. So zany stepped aside, Zeki took over, but understand what happened. It's a coup. There's one man in charge of Ukraine today, and his name is not Mir Zelinsky.
(46:07)His name is Ky. He's the commander of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and they're calling the shots. How do we know this? Because within days of him coming in, he said, we're going over to the general defensive. He's calling the shots. Zelinsky said, we'll never leave at vca. KY came and said, get 'em out. Pull 'em out, red, destroy the line. We're going to be pulling back the military's in charge. And now you have some interesting things because the coup we didn't want to happen may happen because the nationalists are all upset. And there's talk about driving on Kiev right now. The Nazi nationalists are you're talking about, yeah, the Nazis, the N right sector guys who became Ovv, who now have renamed themselves. They're the third assault brigade, and everybody's going, there's no Nazis in Ukraine because there's nothing called the Azov, except the Nazis are so stupid.
(47:03)They say, nah, third of assault brigade we're azo. And they do it right on camera, seeling all this kind of stuff in the West, everywhere. Oh, no, we don't want to see this guy's just calling himself the third assault brigade. But no, the Nazis are there. They're upset. It's a mess right now. But America, I'm just telling everybody's this, right? There was a coup deta in Ukraine. The generals are in charge. Zelinsky is a figurehead right now, but the people calling the shot is the military. Now, that's a new reality. I just want to quickly take a step back and to the point you were making about Navalny, to those that think what you're saying is fanciful and crazy, the United States did a similar action. They didn't kill him, but they did a similar action in Venezuela with Juan Gudo. The United States told the world that Juan Gudo was the president of Venezuela, even though Nicholas Maduro is the democratically elected president.
(48:11)And when Gudo failed, now the United States is trying to do the same thing with a woman named Marina Machado, and she has been convicted by the Venezuelan Supreme Court as having worked with, I think it's Peru, against the interests of Venezuela. So the Venezuelan Supreme Court said, because you've gone outside the country and tried to overthrow this government, you are no longer qualified to be a candidate for president. The United States is trying to ignore the, dictate the decision of the Venezuelan Supreme Court and put this woman in place. Anyway, I bring that up just to show that what you have talked about in terms of, now I forgot the guy's name, Naval, Naval, Navalny, the United States is doing this in doing this, a number of places, and Venezuela is the most recent. But yeah. How about President Diem in Vietnam? Well, we can go for people going, well, this is fanciful.
(49:19)This is out of a guys. We do it all the time. All the time. When leaders become inconvenient to the Sharan, the Sharan, the Sha Saddam Hussein. I just want to remind people, one of the more interesting, I was involved with a lot of defectors, Iraqi defectors in my time as a UN weapons inspector, and one guy that I interviewed many, many times was Wafi Samara. He was the head of military intelligence for Saddam. He ended up being in London and run by the Brits. So I'd go there and the MI six would take you to a safe house, and Wafi would come in and we'd have long conversations, and I tried to extract information from him that could lead to good inspections. But he just sat there and he talked about how the US intelligence would fly in, because the place I wanted to inspect was a specific office with a specific safe.
(50:13)And he said, Hey, when you're in that safe, if you go down to this drawer, boom, you might find some photographs that you recognize. And I said, whatcha talking about? He goes, that's where we kept the American Spy satellite photographs that were given to us by American Intelligence officers who came in and sat in that conference room right next to it. You'll see it when you go in there. I did. And we met there, and they would brief us on the spy satellites, give us the newest signals, intelligence laying out the Iranian ground forces, and they helped us plan the chemical weapons attacks against the Iranians in 1988 and afa. We had this wonderful relationship. He gave me the names of all the guys that he worked with. What I'm trying to say is, ladies and gentlemen, there was a time in 19 88, 19 89, where Saddam was our boy.
(50:58)US intelligence was there. Then Saddam became inconvenient. He fired scud missiles at Israel, which is a capital crime, and we ended up going to war removing them and having him hung by the neck until dead because his continued survival would've been inconvenient for America. Let me just make it as clear as this. Navalny had become inconvenient because the Russians were sitting on, the Russians never go public about anything, and their words mean everything. And when Pesco said, in October of 2020, we know what the CIA is doing, the cia, we know who he's working with. We know what's happening. It meant they know. They know everything. They have all the financials, they have all the videotapes, they have everything. And the US knew it too. That interview with Tucker is very telling. He said, I'm not going to talk to Biden. There's really nothing for me to say, but he says, our special services are talking.
(51:58)They're talking the language of the special services. Having been in the special services and engaged in those kinds of conversations, they're very frank, because we don't have to play games. When you sit down with somebody and they know what your background is, we don't have to pretend. We talk about human recruitment, we talk about technical surveillance, we talk about the tools of the trade, we talk about the language that we know is going on. And so when the special services of Russia sit down with the special services of the CI and say, we know exactly what you guys did. You met here, boom, boom, boom. We got the goods. He's your boy. Do you want him back? And the CIA went, Nope, we don't want him back. We're going to have a lawyer visit him. And again, it may sound something like that, a movie.
(52:40)But remember, Hollywood gets its greatest cues from reality. Frank Pan, angel, Freddy, five Fingers, Freddy, five Fingers baby. Favorite scene in the world. And it's real. I mean, I'm giving away my article, but I'm writing an article that this is going to be explained in great detail, and I talk about Freddy Five Fingers. So the next point here that I want to get to with you quickly is Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio, chair of the House Intelligence Committee. He's warning that Russia may be developing a space-based weapon that could target US satellites. And a lot of the narrative that's surrounding what he said over last weekend is that now Russia has violated, there were some treaties I think signed in the mid eighties that the countries agreed that they would not militarize space. But what seems to be left out of this conversation is that I think when the United States announced the Space Force that was militarization of space, therefore the treaty that they now want to wrap themselves in and call foul based upon, really the United States has already violated it.
(54:00)So go ahead. Well, the treaty is the 1967 treaty, the outer space Treaty 67. Okay? And it talks about, it doesn't say demilitarization. What it says is that space should be used for exclusively peaceful purposes and that nobody should deploy nuclear weapons in the space. Now, what Turner has to show the stupidity of Mike Turner and these people. Apparently there's raw intelligence. That's the term that's used, and that's an important phrase. Finished intelligence is when I collect information, I corroborate it with different sources. You connect the dots, I connect the dots. That's right. Bingo. Good job, Wilmer. And you connect the dots, and then you write up an assessment that it's fact-based. But here's the important thing. You disguise the sources of information because if you're going to release finished intelligence to a congressman or Congress, they do what politicians do. They talk. They bring in somebody, Hey, read this.
(55:05)You're not supposed to write about it, but wink, wink, read this. And they go, oh my God, the Russians are going to put a nuclear weapon in space. What are we going to do about it? Okay, finished. Intelligence gets leaked all the time. Everybody does it. The president on down. It's just the name of the game in Washington dc. Raw intelligence though, is almost never leaked. Why? Because raw intelligence means we haven't protected the source. So Turner released raw intelligence. He released a raw intelligence report to Congress. He put it in the reading room and said, everybody needs to come and read this thing. Now, a lot of people did, a lot of people didn't, but it created a storm because he issued a public statement, which means the media now, because he knows how the game's played. Now, every reporter worked their salt in Washington.
(55:55)Dcs found their congressional sourcing. What the hell is on that report? And people started talking. So what we do know now is that the Russians are developing an anti-satellite capability that incorporates a nuclear device designed to generate an electromagnetic pulse that can shut down all of our satellites in outer space. Now, why is this important? Understand this. Turner released his report on Wednesday, knowing that on Thursday, the gang of eight, four senators, four Republicans from the Intelligence Committee, the leadership was going to meet with the White House National Security Council about this very report and talk about it. So why would you release it when they're already going to talk about it? What are you trying to do?
(56:42)On Wednesday, the day he released his report, SpaceX sent up a Falcon Nine rocket with two satellites. These satellites were experimental missile monitoring satellites, part of a constellation of satellites that the United States started deploying last year. We deployed 28 of them last year. It's going to be a constellation of hundreds. It's sort of like a militarized starlink. And the purpose of this constellation is give America total control over the informational domain. That means that we communicate faster, we navigate, we can target, we can collect. We've militarized space. And the Russians have said, they've written reports to Secretary General saying, Hey, this is a violation of the outer space treaty. You're militarizing space. You're creating an advantage at a time when you say you want to strategically defeat Russia, remember, that's the American objective. And the Russians are saying, if you do this, you could launch a first strike against us, and we might not be able to respond.
(57:45)You're getting a unilateral advantage here, and if we do go to war, you're going to have this total control over intelligence, collection, communications, et cetera, that gives you an operational and tactical advantage. We can't allow this to happen. So what the Russians did is they developed a weapon. They haven't deployed it yet, but it's a weapon that it will go up. And in one winding flash of a moment, that doesn't threaten any life here in America. It's not like they're going up there with a giant dirty bomb. It's going to be a neutron type device, a small device that's geared towards emitting radiation, the pulse, and it's going to blind the entire in an instant shut down this entire satellite network. But here's the important thing. From Turner's perspective, the entire American military approach to war depends on this. If we don't have this satellite thing, we put talk about putting all the eggs in one basket, we have literally put all the eggs in one basket.
(58:44)Everything we do depends on this. If you shut that satellite network down, ladies and gentlemen, we can't go to war. We can't go to war. It's over. And Turner knows it. So what Turner's trying to do is say, guys, why are we investing all this money? This is going to go on for years when we know the Russians can undo it. This is stupid. We need to either get involved in arms control to prevent this from happening, or we need to come up with a backup plan because these satellites ain't going to work the way you want 'em to work when you want 'em to work. That's noble. But here's the problem. He released raw intelligence, which means the Russians now know how we collected it, and at a time when we need to have continued access to this stream of reporting. Now more than ever, let's imagine that the president says, Hey, what are the Russians up to today on that satellite thing, the thing we've been monitoring, you guys came to me and you said, Hey, boss, we put a, I don't know how they did it.
(59:49)We tapped a cable and now we're listening to the conversations of these guys. Oh, wow, that's cool. Okay, but boss, we can't talk about, we can't mention the following words because if we mention the following words, the Russians will know what conversation we listen to, and then they'll stop communicating. Well, raw intelligence gives you those words. It wasn't finished product. Mike Turner compromised his source. We will never listen to them again at a time when we actually need to be monitoring this to come up with a strategy. Remember, let's say we want to do the right thing for once in our pathetic lives as Americans, and we say, maybe it's time we do engage in meaningful arms control. This is when we need to know what Russian intent is. How far along are they? Are they going to deploy this? Is this something that the Russians are doing to get to the negotiating table, or is this something that the Russians are going to keep, no matter what, what's going on, it affects our negotiating strategy.
(01:00:44)We don't know now because Mike Turner released the raw intelligence to do an honorable thing to get people, he knew that they were going to sweep it under the rug. He knew that the Gang of eight and the White House were just go, Nope, we're not going to worry about this. We're going to keep deploying the satellites. And he's going, that's stupid. But now we are blind. And that's why I call it Turner's folly. I mean, trying to do the right thing. He did the absolute wrong thing. And now at a time when we need to have this intelligence, it's not there. I know there's a lot of people out there that thinks intelligence is a bad word, and it's been misused throughout history. There's no doubt about that. But I'm here to tell you right now that collecting information of this nature is absolutely essential to the national security of the United States because you want our leaders to be informed about the potential threats that exist around the world.
(01:01:32)And there's a need for intelligence, not Iris. I'm not talking about violating American constitutional rights. I'm not talking about, I'm saying there's a need for people like me who did it honorably. It's a tough job. It's a dangerous job. Sometimes you have to do things that you wouldn't want to talk about at the PTA, but it's the reality of the world that you have to go out there and you have to get this information so that your leaders are informed so they can make the right decisions. And Mike Turner has cost us that information at a time when we desperately need it. Final question for you. And that surrounds nato and Donald Trump's comments about nato, and there seems to be an awful lot of furor about his talking about defunding NATO and all this kind of stuff, when all that I can read and understand is that NATO is now really obsolete and that it's a money laundering scheme.
(01:02:26)Yeah, let me put it this way. There's a foreign minister of Lithuania Landsburg out there, and he's, I mean, Lithuania, the Baltic countries, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, they're making a lot of noise right now about Article five and how it's essential that NATO must come to the collective defense. But Lithuania is talking about, for instance, blockading Coing grad, the Russian enclave on the Baltic Sea. They're talking about sanctions. They're talking about a whole bunch of stuff that could lead to a war with Russia. And they're saying, that's okay because we're nato, and NATO will protect us.
(01:03:05)The American people need to understand that Lithuania has a population of 2.8 million. The greater East Coast megapolis from Boston to Washington DC is 50 million people. Do you really think that we're going to sacrifice 50 million people to defend 2.8 million people who are kicking a hornet's nest right now? The answer is no. And that's the bottom line about nato. The American people are waking up to the fact that NATO is not about defending Europe from the evil Russians, NATO's a suicide pill. Because you have nations like Poland, you have nations like Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, that think that because they have this NATO shield behind them, they can behave aggressively to Russian and not have any consequence to it. If they start a war against Russia and a blockade of Coing, grad is an act of war, Russia will respond militarily. And now if you're Joe Biden, it's a sacred thing.
(01:04:04)Every inch of NATO soil is sacred. Article five is a sacred, no, it's a suicide pill. It's a trap having poodles trying to get the rottweilers to fight. NATO is an organization that has outlived its usefulness. Donald Trump, he's not the most eloquent person or the most articulate person. And there's a lot about him that just cannot be supported 100%. But I'll tell you right now, he's speaking the mind of many Americans when he says, we ain't doing this anymore. We're not paying your bills. We're not going to be there for you. When you want to kick a hornet's nest. We don't want to get stung. So you're on your own, and that's what's going to happen. I am predicting that nato, it may not last 10 years. It's out. It's on its way out because it's, here's the thing. Remember we talked about mobilization at the beginning?
(01:04:56)We talked about mobilization. It's funny to watch the schizophrenia that exists in people like Jan Stoltenberg who stutters his way through everything. Russia is evil, and we must must stand up through Russia. NATO must do, but we cannot afford to mobilize right now. We have no money. Our industry is no longer working, and we don't, but America will pay for it because NATO is a, I mean, it's going back and forth. NATO can't mobilize right now because they don't have the industrial base to mobilize. Not only that, nobody wants to be part the British who are out there. Boris Johnson doing that ridiculous thing. Lance Corporal Johnson reporting, sir, we're going to mobilize the people. First of all, Britain has two aircraft carriers. They built for, I forget how many billions of dollars they can't get out of port because they don't work. They build a whole bunch of new frigates, brand new modern frigates to defend these aircraft carriers, but they don't have enough sailors.
(01:05:51)So in order to get the sailors on these new frigates, they have to retire frigates that are still good. So they're military. We're going to fight the Russians. I mean, you hear this British general, we're going to be on the front lines of the next war with Russia, with what? Your military's 72,000. Right now, you can't fill up a soccer stadium, and in five years it's going to be 56,000. Nobody wants to join the British military anymore. Nobody's joining the Navy. Nobody's joining anything because the youth of Europe don't believe in Europe. They don't believe they're not willing to give their lives for this pathetic little enterprise called Europe or nato. So all this talk about 300,000, this, that mobilize. It's all talk. And that's the good news is it's all talk. The better news is I think NATO's done because you used a word that's very important. And normally, as I said, I shy against conspiracies, but NATO's a money laundering scheme, that's all it is. It's an employment vehicle. I mean, I have to be careful. I have relatives that work for nato. They're not Americans, and thank God, I mean, one's married to my sister. So I like the fact that he has a paycheck. It keeps my sister fed and a roof overhead.
(01:07:07)But the jobs not a real job. None of NATO's a real job. It's just an employment vehicle for a political economic elite that automatically fallen on these ES because that's what NATO is. It's a sinecure for people just to sit there and collect a paycheck doing nothing. If I have the chance to speak to President Biden, and I know he watches the show regularly, I would have to ask him about the sanctity of NATO that he holds so near and dear, if you believe in NATO to the degree that you do, Mr. President, why did you engage in an act of war as in blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline? Why did you engage in an act of war against a NATO country that being Germany? Because by doing so, article five, the other NATO countries are supposed to respond to Germany's defense in a manner in which they see fit.
(01:08:10)So I guess the fact that they didn't respond means they didn't see a manner that they see fit. But I don't hear anybody asking that question. Why? If NATO is NATO and it's sacrosanct as it is, why did you engage in an act of war against a NATO member? That's my final question, Scott Ritter. Well, I mean, it's a great question, but here's even an equally relevant one. Why did the German chancellor stay silent at the press conference in February when the president said that if Russian and invade Ukraine, I'll take out Nord stream. And when he was asked the question, but it's German, how could you do that? It'll get done, I promise you. And Olaf Schultz is sitting there going, not saying a word, not saying a word. So how can you, I mean, the thing about Article five is it has to be invoked by the person attacked.
(01:09:05)And Germany never once said, we've been attacked because they were there when it was designed. Olaf Schultz knew all along that this was going to happen because Germany's not a sovereign state. And that's the thing about NATO that people need to understand. It exists only for the United States. It's the exclusive tool of the United States. It exists to promote American national security interests. And this is why when you have Latvia and Poland now believing that NATO's there for their interest, no, it's not. NATO doesn't exist for anybody's interest, but our own. And as Europe wakes up to this reality, they're going to realize that we don't need to be part of NATO anymore because it doesn't benefit us. And there's a lot of talk now about a European security agency and things of that nature. Yeah, and President Putin asked, I thought, a very relevant as we look at, so people say, well, why did the United States blow up nato?
(01:10:05)Well, I mean, blow up Nord Stream basically to de-industrialized Germany de-industrialized Europe, and have the Europeans start buying natural gas from the United States and other things. Putin during his speech said, well, you realize they didn't destroy the entire Nord stream pipeline. There is one pipe that can still transmit gas. Why don't you open that up? He said, there's the ability to send gas through Ukraine. Why don't you open that up? There's the ability to send gas through Poland. Why don't you open that up and haven't heard an answer? But that's, you want the best answer. Go ahead. I'll just say this. I grew up in Germany and the car that I loved, I was in love with the Porsche nine 11 SC Turbo, rough modified, and well, guess what's happening. Wilmer Porsche is moving its production to the United States. Michelin, the French Tire company. Michelin has shut down, I think two tire plants in Germany, and they're moving them.
(01:11:15)I don't know where they're moving, but they're moving 'em out of Germany. I know that. Can you imagine a Porsche plant and a Michelin plant? I tell you what, there's going to be a new car in my driveway pretty soon. It's going to stay made in the USA on it, but that's what's going on. We've de-industrialized Europe to our benefit. And again, we come back to America doesn't do anything for anybody. We only do it for ourselves. And yeah. Scott Ritter, man, thank you so much. You fit me in a real tight schedule today. Thank you so much, Scott. I really appreciate it. Someday, Wilmer, you're going to have to explain to me what Extreme golf is, but I'm just eavesdropping on your wonderful set. Oh, well, that's the name of PXG is the name of the golf. Those are the golf clubs that I use.
(01:12:03)Oh, I thought it was like a sport. No, no, no. Parsons Extreme Golf is the PXG. That's the brand of golf clubs that I use. Oh, I was thinking like combat golf where you go out and try and play golf, but people are attacking you and tackling you while you put No. It's interesting that you say that because on the golf course, I have talked to friends of mine about full contact golf. I like Scott, man. Thank you. Thank you. You too, man. Hey folks. I want to thank you all for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wier Leon, stay tuned for new episodes. Every week you get wonderful conversations like I just had with Scott Ritter. Also, please follow and please, please, please subscribe. Leave a review, share the show with those you think that would be interested, and those that you think wouldn't even give a damn. Follow us on social media. You can find all the links below to the show description. And remember, folks, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Because talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wilmer Leon. Have a great one. Peace

When U.S. Imperialism Lands on US at Home

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TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Wilmer Leon (00:13):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. So here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode of this show, my guest and I will have probing, provocative and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events and the broader historical context in which these events occur. This will enable you to better understand and analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before us is anti imperialism in the US today. What is it and what is it not? And for insight into this, my guest for the discussion is the chair of the coordinating committee for the Black Alliance for Peace, an editor and contributing columnist for the Black Agenda Report and the Green Party candidate for vice president of the United States in 2016. Ajamu Baraka, as always my brother. Welcome.
Ajamu Baraka (01:21):
Good to be here, Dr. Leon. Thank you.
Wilmer Leon (01:24):
So today's topic is based on a piece in Oroco Tribune entitled Anti Imperialism in the US Today, what it Is and Is not. It's written by Stanfield Smith and he opens his piece by quoting the late Cuban president, Fidel Castro, saying there is an enemy that can be called universal, an enemy whose attitude and whose actions threaten the whole world, bully the whole world. That universal enemy is Yankee imperialism. Ajamu your thoughts on Castro's assessment, especially in the context of the recent president Joe Biden and a bipartisan group of lawmakers urging the Republican controlled House of Representatives to take up this $95 billion military aid package for Ukraine, for Israel and Taiwan and other allies, especially understanding if the United States wasn't using Ukraine as a proxy, you wouldn't need that money. The United States is funding the genocide in Gaza and is also trying to use Taiwan as the tip of the spear against China. Ajamu Baraka.
Ajamu Baraka (02:45):
Well thank you so much for that question because it's a very important question and a very important conversation that we have to have. Fidel's position is in alignment with my position, the position I've been advocating or arguing for the last few years that one of the issues among left forces in the US primarily and also in Western Europe is that they seem not to understand the difference between a primary and the secondary contradiction. That is that they don't seem to recognize that for many of us in the colonized world, in the global south, in the northern states, but in those parts of the northern states where we are exploited and nationally oppressed, that for us the primary enemy, if you'll emanates primarily from the US and is Western European allies, we see the US and Western European allies as Fidel sees them as in fact representing an existential threat to the rest of collective humanity.
(04:02)Therefore, that enemy becomes the primary objective of our political activity. Now, some western left leftists, they confused by that and so they will look at some of the issues or contradictions and some of the emergent socialists countries or countries with socialist aspirations, countries that are just trying to build some kind of progressive movement in their nations to have some breathing room for development but who find themselves as a consequence in the crosshairs of the US and US policies attempting to undermine their projects and these leftists will focus in on those internal issues, giving left coverage and rationalization for the targeting of those nations. We see that as fundamentally contradictory. We see that as in fact reactionary confusing what should be the primary objective, which is the defeat of Western imperialism with the internal issues in these various states as equal and they are primary and secondary contradictions are in fact that they are different.
Wilmer Leon (05:28):
You mentioned the United States and its Western European allies and what is even ironic now is many of those Western European allies are finding themselves being victimized by US imperialism. We're looking at over the last seven months to a year a dramatic decline in productivity in Germany as a result of the United States blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline. Now Europe is having to pay exorbitant amounts of money for natural gas. We find that impacting Britain, we find that impacting France. We find that all over Europe and and now for example, for those who may have listened to the interview with Russian president Putin and he's supposed to be the villain and Donald Trump mentions moving away from NATO and folks in the United States were screaming, how can Donald Trump talk about NATO like that in the United States attacked a NATO ally in act of war in blowing up Nord stream. So again, you mentioned the US and its allies and now American imperialism is even attacking its Western European allies.
Ajamu Baraka (06:57):
Exactly. I mean it's really amazing. I mean look, one of the objectives of the proxy war in Ukraine was in fact to ensure that there would be policies that would disarticulate the Russian economy from western Europe, specifically from the German economy. And the objective there was to weaken the German economy and also by extension various Western economies in order to make the further exploitation and in fact the intensification of the exploitation of the European market more favorable to US capital and the Europeans and the European ruling class fell right into that trap and to make sure that that plan was successful. As you indicated in your question, the US ensured that there would be no backsliding by blowing up Nord Stream two. They knew that once the German workers, once many European workers and even parts of the middle class woke up to the fact that they had got suckered into supporting this aggressive war in Ukraine and that they were being negatively impacted, that there'd be political pressure on these various states to reverse course and to reengage with the Russians. Whether us said, oh no, you're not going backwards. In fact we're going to make sure that by blowing up this pipeline and making sure that you remain now dependent on the importation of liquified natural gas coming from where from the us as Anthony said, the secretary of state of this is a marvelous opportunity. And so that was part of the objective of this war. It was a war to enhance the positionality of US capital in Europe.
Wilmer Leon (09:08):
In fact, going back to, I made reference to Vladimir Putin's interview with Tucker Carlson and Putin raised the question, he says, well, you blew up part of Nord stream because folks don't know there's Nord stream one and Nord stream two. He said, you blew up part of Nord stream, one of the pipes still works. Why don't you turn it up? He said, Europe can get natural gas from Russia through Ukraine. There are pipelines running through Ukraine that could carry natural gas to Europe. He says, turn it up. He says, there are pipelines that run from Russia through Poland. You can get natural gas through Poland. He says, why don't you turn those up? It all goes back to Western hegemony and imperialism.
Ajamu Baraka (09:58):
It goes back to the issue of the European ruling class that understanding that they have interest that are really counter those of the US and that irrational policy of allowing themselves to be suckered into this proxy war and not looking out for their own national interests is resulting in real political issues within their countries. Not only the issue of natural gas. You and I talked about on another one of your programs, this issue with using the Ukrainian war, the US capitol that's gone in and basically bought up some of the best land in Ukraine and are now exporting from Ukraine various agricultural products. They are using the war as a battery realm to avoid or to circumvent the requirements of the importation of agricultural products across Europe and imposing the products from Ukraine into various European markets as an act of solidarity. Well, the problem with that of course is it's undermining the positions of European farmers across Western Europe.
(11:24)And so you find that farmers and places like France and other countries, I say, Hey, wait a minute, we are now losing money because of our markets now being flooded with wheat and other products coming in from Ukraine. What is this? We have to engage in production by very clear meticulous requirements, regulations, and now using this solidarity issue with the Ukrainian war, you are undermining our position. You're undermining our ability to make a living. And so that's causing real political issues in these various nations. So these policies being pursued by these European nations are really such that they are putting themselves in a position where they are creating issues for themselves politically that they're going to find it very difficult to reverse very soon, as a matter of fact in the next few months.
Wilmer Leon (12:34):
And in fact to that point talking about agriculture, there are farmers in Germany that have been protesting for weeks. They're dumping manure in the roads, they're doing a lot of activism, real on the ground, practical activism to show their resistance to the policies that you're mentioning. And also they're incredibly angry because a lot of the subsidies that the government was providing to them in order to offset the price differentials that they were experiencing as a result of flooding the market with Ukrainian products, those subsidies have been cut if not totally eliminated as the German government, as the French government, as other EU countries are sending more money to Ukraine, so many of them, many of these Western Europeans are experiencing a lot of the same issues there that many in the United States are suffering here. As our infrastructure is in decline as our schools are underfunded, as healthcare costs are going up and people are, as homelessness is on the rise, we can find 95 billion to send to Ukraine and to send to Israel and to send to Taiwan. All three of those fights are fights that would not be ongoing if the United States hadn't started them. But we can't seem to find the way to take care of Americans here in the United States.
Ajamu Baraka (14:05):
We can't find the way Dr. Leon because we can't have an honors and open and free national conversation because the same interests that are advancing themselves in Western Europe of the same interests that control the means of communication in the us. And so therefore a conversation with the people of the US around what really makes sense in terms of policy. Does it make sense to have 886 billion devoted toward defense? So-called defense or should we use some of those resources to in fact address issues of homelessness, invest in education, create the conditions where everybody can have access to healthcare pay for free education up to through the university level. US population is paying a price for supporting the policies that only are benefiting a small minority of the population, in fact about 1% of the population. So that kind of understanding that kind of discussion, it's not taking place, it's only taking place in spaces like this in alternative media spaces and as a consequence it makes it very difficult for us to turn the corner with advancing policies that make more sense, that address the real interest of the American people
Wilmer Leon (15:49):
And in this piece, anti imperialism in the US today, what it is and is not Stansfield Smith, he draws the distinction between progressives and anti-imperialist. He says that imperialism uses human rights and democracy issues in countries that it is targeting for regime change as a rationale for foreign interference and that many progressives swallow and even join in these disinformation campaigns to support these moves where in contrast, anti-imperialist, they focus on uncovering and bringing to light US disinformation and interference in national sovereignty. So can you elaborate a little bit on this issue? He talks about progressives versus anti-imperialist you use in many instances, use the term the left if you could because we hear these references, we hear these terms baned about all the time and many people mistakenly think that they're all the same, but in fact they're not.
Ajamu Baraka (17:01):
Well, they really aren't and I'm glad you raised that question. I think the way Stanfield is using that term and many others, when you talk about progressives, you're really talking about liberals and maybe social Democrats. That is those individuals who have politics and very similar to say for example Bernie Sanders who's a social democrat, who have a soft socialistic orientations Bernie Sanders, Cornell West, as opposed to elements of the left that are not only anti imperialists but of course politics that suggest that this global system of colonial capitalism has to be transcended and be replaced with a new kind of political economy, one that's organized around socialistic lines. And so that to me constitutes the left, the real left if you will. But even within that camp, if you'll, there's still some issues in terms of how one gets to socialism and that's where you have some of the confusion because even among the left, they will sometimes find themselves inadvertently often providing political cover to the US because they are in opposition to a particular nation's experiment, be it Nicaragua, Cuba or Venezuela, Peru or Bolivia, that if the politics aren't developing in ways in which these western leftists believe they should be developing, if they don't correspond to some kind of imagined model, then they will, they begin to criticize those experiments at the same time, did those experiments find themselves in the crossheads of US subversion?
(19:08)That's backward. It's backward and it's contradictory. So that is the issue that Smith is alluding to in that very important article. Dr. Leon? Yes, there's another element to this, okay,
(19:25)Even the way in which the bourgeoisie, meaning the bourgeoisie, meaning the ruling class has used and weaponized democracy and human rights in order to obscure real interest in undermining these various nations as a consequence of gods. They're not going to be able to use those weapons like they did in the past because they have now been exposed. It's quite clear to so many people around the world and even people within the US the hypocrisy of those positions. What happened to the responsibility to protect a component of humanitarian intervention in order to protect the human rights of certain collectives? It doesn't exist when it comes to the Palestinians. So they have undermined in their own short-term greed and their own short-term pursuits to undermine a very important and powerful weapon that used to use to be able to obscure their reactionary politics
Wilmer Leon (20:39):
To that. It is really amazing when you look at how long the been exposed to the genocide, how long that struggle has been ongoing and how quickly things turn post October 6th. One of the ways that I have described it is I tell people that Israel has bombed the world into reality that now that this horror, now that this genocide is playing itself out on your telephone screens, not to mention your computers and your home screens, the atrocities, the reality of these atrocities have just decimated the myths
Ajamu Baraka (21:39):
Exactly, and they're never going to be able to return back to the ideological status quo. They have exposed themselves, we are seen behind the curtain and we understand now the reality of the naked power that they are exercising to try to maintain their global control. We now see the nature of the settler colonial project in Israel, and by extension we are getting a better understanding of the settler colonial project in the territory called the United States of America. At the core of these projects is the reality of naked violence to establish those regimes and to maintain them. So that understanding of the nature of colonialism coupled with a deeper understanding of the nature of capitalism disconnected is radicalizing millions of people across the globe and millions of people within the US So the politics going forward are going to be fundamentally different, but it's going to be different but even more dangerous.
(22:53)Dr. Leon, why without the ideological weapon that they were able to use to impose conformity and support for their policies, now they're going to be more and more dependent on the use of naked force. That's why you find the naked use of force in various local environments. That's why you see in Atlanta, for example, the use of RICO laws to criminalize the opposition to cop city. These are examples of the hysterical reaction from the rulers to this change in consciousness. That's why the O rule three is facing federal prosecution because of their to the policies in Ukraine. So the repressive apparatus and the repressive network of the state is being strengthened and being utilized against this growing consciousness that's being manifested within the United States of America.
Wilmer Leon (24:06):
And another place where I believe that we're going to see this manifest itself is in the Middle East itself. Hassan Nala, the head of Hezbollah in Lebanon recently gave a speech where he said, and I'll paraphrase, he said, basically for as horrific as all of this is, he said, this is really going beyond the Palestinians and that this is an issue for the entire region. And there have been a number of interpretations of that statement. What that says to me is he is not only speaking to the Palestinians that he and speaking to Anah in Yemen and others, he's letting the United States know he's letting the west know that you all are about to start a global conflict that he's saying everybody in the pool and because they see themselves as facing a common oppressor, they see themselves facing a common enemy and he's saying, you all are about to ignite a fuse, the likes of which you will not be able to exterminate or put out, and it's going to be all adults in the pool, and the result isn't going to be very positive,
Ajamu Baraka (25:34):
Dr. Leon, and what's going to really like that is if there is in fact a ground assault in Rafa, the Egyptians have already said that that can very easily result in the cancellation of Camp David, the Saudis have said that there's going to be dire circumstances. This is going to see what has happened is that these policies have forced these monarchs and all of these Arab and Muslim right-wing elements to have to respond to the pressure that they're feeling from their own populations. So horrific what is happening in Gaza, they can no longer collaborate under the table with the us. They are being now forced to take more forthright positions in opposition to what is happening in Palestine that you couple, what is happening on the Israeli Lebanon border was Hezbollah. You look at what is happening with the Hutu that have basically shut down shipping as it relates to ships going into and supporting Israel, and you see that these unwise policies are creating a situation that can very easily span out of control and even elements within the US believe that this has gone too far.
(27:16)And that's why you find some fleeting commentary from genocide, Joe talking about that the Israelis have gone over the top because now they understand the real possibility of this igniting a regional conflict that they're not going to be able to control. If it does in fact lead to that, and they know that you have leadership in Israel, you have a lunatic that's in power. You have a right wing racist settler regime that is engaged in murder, not only supporting the murder in Gaza, but they are actively murdering Palestinians on the West Bank. Over 400 Palestinians have been murdered by settlers since October the seventh. So this is creating a situation that's untenable, and so there has to be a pullback. Yesterday the Moody credit agency downgraded Israeli stocks and downgraded the economy. So there is a real economic consequence now developing. So it's a very dangerous situation that the wiser elements of the international ruling class is saying, we've got to get a hold of this
Wilmer Leon (28:47):
And talk about how this hypocrisy of the United States has been exposed, is being exposed and the international reaction, what I mean by that is as we sit and look at the genocide that is taking place in Gaza and the United States is paying for it, the United States is arming it. And on one hand you hear Tony Blinken saying, I'm traversing the region, I'm talking to the leaders. I'm asking them to be very careful. Basically what he's saying is he's asking for a kinder, gentler genocide and Joe Biden is saying that we are concerned about the Palestinians and while in fact he's not telling Netanyahu, I'll just pull the plug on your money and we'll put a stop to this thing in about two or three days, days. What's your take your sense as you travel the world and speak to those around the world, how is that hypocrisy resonating around the world?
Ajamu Baraka (29:54):
The result of this is that the US has lost prestige, will never regained, that the world understands that the US and Europe is basically finished and that nations are deciding that they're going to put their eggs is a different basket, and that basket is called bricks. This emerging group of nations that now control something like 36% of global GDP as opposed to the G seven that's controlling about 30%, the shift has already taken place materially. Now the shift is taking place ideologically and politically. So it is a shift in momentum is a recognition that for all intents and purposes, the decline of the west is irreversible, but it's also a recognition of the danger that all of this poses for all of us because it becomes quite clear when you see the support that all of the western nations have given to the Israeli fascists that the west is prepared to blow up the world before they voluntarily surrender power.
Wilmer Leon (31:19):
Now wait a minute. Wait a minute. Elaborate on that because a lot of people will hear you say, blow up the world. Oh, that's hyperbole. Oh, he's just being over the top. Oh, that Aja mu Baraka. He's so dramatic. But no, that's real talk.
Ajamu Baraka (31:36):
Yeah, it really is because they're still flirty with the possibility of nuclear confrontation in Ukraine. There's still the possibility of some kind of wild and reckless attack by the Israelis on Iran and even the use of a nuclear weapon. There is the situation we haven't touched on yet, that is the unwise policies of the part of the US in providing support to and propping up and encouragement to the government on the island of Taiwan, the provocative moves being made in the South China Sea, the whole pivot toward Asia. There is always the possibility of these situations escalating to a nuclear confrontation. And it seems like that there are elements within the foreign policy community that believe that they in fact can not only escalate, but they can engage in a first strike and win. There are people openly talking like Dr. Strange love and talking about the possibility of winning a nuclear confrontation.
(32:55)That's what makes it so incredibly dangerous because when you have missiles in western Europe, for example, in and Poland and Romania and other places that are theoretically defensive according to the us, but the Russians know that they can be recalculated if you'll or refitted in a matter of minutes and to become offensive, which means that you have the ability to strike from say, Poland to Moscow in six minutes. Now you have the Russians who are on a head trigger alert, they have to launch on warning because you can't allow your nuclear arsenal to be caught in the silos. So when you had situations in the past where there were computer glitches where one side thought that the other side had launched, launched, we had 30 minutes to correct it, we have documented situations where that in fact happened at least on two or three occasions. How do you do that when you are on a trigger hair launch or warning in six minutes? So it's very, very dangerous. So that's what we are referring to. This is not hyperbole. People talk about in five years I'm going to be doing so and so and so I'm like, are you sure you're going to be here in five years? Yeah, I'm being dramatic because I'm being for real. We can see the possibilities of these maniacs escalating a situation to the point of a nuclear confrontation because the amateurs, Dr. Leon,
(34:36)The gap between the leadership in places like Russia and China and the US and in western Europe, it's never been bigger before. They don't know what they are doing and that's what makes us so incredibly dangerous for all of us.
Wilmer Leon (34:54):
You just mentioned the mistake being made, and that is not theoretical. I want to say it was 1983, a Russian, I don't even know what his title is, but he's in a silo in a Russian silo. His name is Stanislav Petrov, and he is a missile technician, I'll call him, sitting in a Russian silo looking at his screen and he sees a blip on his screen. And the protocol is when you see this blip, you push a button and when you push that button, silos open, missiles come up, we're ready to launch. But he thinks that there's something wrong with the blip on his screen. And thank God he did because by his taking just a couple of minutes to be rational and to think, what he found out was it wasn't an incoming missile. It was a mistake in a software program that miscalculated or misinterpreted something that was transpiring.
(36:05)So that was 1983. Folks can look this up. Stanislav Petrov is his name, and if it hadn't been for him, we would've been in a nuclear conflict. What you just talked about in terms of missiles in Poland and Yugoslavia and other places, that's one of the big reasons why Russian president Putin is so hell bent on Ukraine not becoming a part of nato because he says, and he's right, if Ukraine becomes a part of nato, NATO will put missiles in Ukraine. You've now cut my response time from seven or eight minutes to three minutes, which means Stanislav petrov, God bless his soul, that doesn't work anymore. Launch on notice. And the other point is Putin has made this point a number of times saying, look, you guys got to understand something. I got missiles too. I got missiles like you got missiles. And in the west that gets spun as Vladimir Putin is threatening to use nuclear weapons. No, what he's telling you is if you think you can come in here and punch me in the face, understand I can punch back. I have what you have. And now what we're seeing from a technological perspective is what they got is a little better then what we're used to seeing. So this is not hyperbole, this is not fantasy. This is real talk.
Ajamu Baraka (37:59):
Yeah, no, they have demonstrated with supersonic weapons that they have
Wilmer Leon (38:04):
Hypersonic
Ajamu Baraka (38:05):
Hypersonic weapons. They have a technological advantage of us and not been able to catch up with yet. It's very dangerous
Wilmer Leon (38:14):
Minute. Wait a minute. To that point, when President Biden, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I want people to understand this isn't theoretical high hyperbole. When Joe Biden sent the USS Gerald Ford into the Mediterranean Sea as a show of force to Hezbollah and to the Houthis, Vladimir Putin said, Joe, why are you doing this? You're not scaring anybody, you're not scar. He said, these people don't scare, and oh, by the way, we can sink your aircraft carrier from the Black Sea with our armed missiles, the Ken Jaw missiles, he said, and they're hypersonic. You won't even know they're coming until your aircraft carrier is sinking. That's real talk.
Ajamu Baraka (39:19):
And what's also kind of funny but tragic at the same time is that while they are engaged in provocative activity in the Endo Pacific region outside of Taiwan and in the Taiwan straits, the Pentagon has war games, a confrontation between the US and China, and I think we talked about it before, and they were lost every time,
Wilmer Leon (39:48):
25 out of 25.
Ajamu Baraka (39:50):
So it's like, what are these people doing? What are you doing? The whole concept that was coming out of the project for a new American century in which they argued that the US had the capacity to fight two theater wars simultaneously that should have been put to rest when they lost both in Afghanistan and in Iraq, basically global solve nations. But now they are actually a few months ago you thought they were really going insane because they are fighting in Ukraine and they are fighting in Ukraine. Make a mistake about that is the Ukrainians are dying, but this is a Western and US ward, while at the same time they were needling the Chinese. So it's like what? You all are going to fight the Russians and the Chinese at the same time? It wasn't making and they
Wilmer Leon (40:48):
Are allies.
Ajamu Baraka (40:51):
Yeah, well, part of the conflict,
Wilmer Leon (40:54):
You got to throw North Korea in there too.
Ajamu Baraka (40:56):
Well, part of the conflict water of the element that we didn't talk about, when you talk about what's happening in Ukraine in terms of the secondary objectives of this proxy war, it was to weaken the Russians to the point where they would not be a very effective ally to the Chinese. The target was not just Russia, it was Germany as we talked about, and the Chinese. So they were creating a situation where they were going to win regardless of what happened in their own imagination.
Wilmer Leon (41:27):
There are some neocons that thought you could go at China directly. There were some neocons that believed that you could go at Russia directly, and then there were others who believed the way you get to China, you've got to go through Russia.
Ajamu Baraka (41:42):
Yes, exactly. All
Wilmer Leon (41:44):
Are wrong. All are wrong.
Ajamu Baraka (41:47):
They were proven wrong. I mean the Russian economy was supposed to be destroyed, be destroyed as a consequence of this conflict. And as Putin indicated in that interview that the Russian economy is stronger than there's ever been. Every time they have imposed series of sanctions against the Russians. Even Putin said this a couple of years ago, it allowed him to impose economic reforms that he couldn't have done without the sanctions. He made the oligarchy disengage from the European economy and reinvest and the Russian economy. So they have become more economically independent as a consequence of these sanctions. So it's always been counterproductive and you have some realists in the US foreign policy community that predicted that. But the realists have had to take a second, have had to stand back and allow these neocons who have been driving policy in both parties for the last 20 years basically or more. And the result is the US is weaker than it's ever been since the end of the second imperialist war that we call World War ii.
Wilmer Leon (43:14):
Another example, and I think a more practical example, and what I mean by practical is it doesn't involve the oligarchs. It involves the everyday Russian person. One of the things when President Biden told us that as a result of this Ukraine conflict that he was going to turn the ruble into rubble, and by imposing sanctions on the Russian economy, one of the things that they were projecting was or predicting was that the Russian citizens would run to the Russian banks and take their money out of the banks and put their money other places. And what Putin did was he raised the interest rates. One of the things that he did was he raised the interest rates that the banks would pay on deposits. So the Russian citizens found, oh, I'll make more money if I leave my money in the bank. And what a lot of people don't know about him, dude has a PhD in economics. Not only is he an attorney, he has a PhD in economics. So he has a little bit of understanding. He has a better understanding of econ than Joe Biden.
Ajamu Baraka (44:41):
I mean Joe Biden's a moron. I mean most of the US leadership are morons. One thing we can say about Barack Obama, though he was not in that same category. He was just a slickster. And same thing with Bill Clinton. But the quality of the leadership in the US state has been a mean, been dangerously. Frighteningly are incompetent. And that's the thing that scares me the most, that we are going to trip up into a situation that the US is not going to be able to reverse and all of us will suffer as a consequence. Look, when you hear no matter what your opinion may be a Putin or a President Xi when they speak and even the way they comport themselves, these are adults, these are statesmen. If you'll, and you compare that to these idiots in the US started with genocide jokes and these idiots who are making policy both in the Democrat and Republican parties, there's no gravitas, there's no worldly sophistication. They're just like country bumpkins. They are so incredibly unsophisticated and adolescent. That's the term that I use to describe US culture. It's an adolescent dangerous culture. And because it has so much power, that's what makes it so incredibly dangerous to all of us that people need. If you haven't seen this check out that interview, you can have your views about Putin and the cartoon characters that's been drawn up for you by your bosses, but you cannot conclude that this is not a states person with a sophisticated understanding of the world.
Wilmer Leon (46:46):
If you look at a couple of examples of what you're talking about, particularly as it relates to the Chinese, I'm not even going to get into Secretary Lavrov because that dude is oh, just brilliant. But Wang Ye, the foreign secretary of China early in the Biden administration, Tony Blinken was supposed to meet with the Chinese delegation in Anchorage, Alaska. And so they all convene in Anchorage and Blinken starts lecturing the Chinese and they look at him and they say, whatcha doing? You have no idea who you are talking to. We didn't come here to be lectured by you. We're China, we hold your debt. You don't hold out out.
Ajamu Baraka (47:52):
What was so incredible about that was this was the clumsy attempt on the part of the Biden administration to assert their white maleness. They're going show it was whiteness. We going to show we running the show with these Chinese. I mean it was incredible. And like you said, the Chinese
Wilmer Leon (48:17):
Said the sick men of criticize,
Ajamu Baraka (48:19):
You're not competent enough to criticize us,
Wilmer Leon (48:21):
Right? Our culture is thousands of years old. And then you've got the whole spy balloon. What a lot of people don't understand is Tony Blinken said, I'm going to China to meet with President Xi. He was not invited. He said, I'm going to China. And G said, no, but he said, I'm coming to China. So usually diplomats are welcomed in Beijing. President Xi said, okay, well if you're coming, I can't remember the name of the city, but there's another city where they send lesser caliber diplomats and folks that they really don't want to deal with. He said, I'm going to send you here. I'm not going to meet you in Beijing and I'm not even come see you there. And Blinken got embarrassed and that's when the balloon comes in the jet stream, the weather balloon comes in the jet stream as weather balloons will do.
(49:30)And they used that calling it a spy balloon as the basis of, oh, you're sending a spy balloon, therefore I can't come see you. No, it was, Xi didn't want to totally embarrass Blinken by saying, I'm not going to let you in my country. What he said was, I'm going to send you off to the hinterlands and you can go on a tour if you want to. And Tony Blinken said, well, no, I ain't doing that. I mean, those are just examples and they don't get explained as such by Western media, but that's what really happened.
Ajamu Baraka (50:10):
Look, Dr. Leon, I was in China a couple of months ago.
Wilmer Leon (50:14):
There we
Ajamu Baraka (50:14):
Go.
Wilmer Leon (50:16):
Am I right?
Ajamu Baraka (50:18):
You are absolutely right. I'm going to tell you they can't can't be defeated. This what they are building there is absolutely incredible. I'm sitting on this bullet train going from Beijing to Shanghai, and I had a cup of water and I was doing something and I put it down and I realized, oh, the water's on the floor cause fly when you do Amtrak. You know how that on Amtrak,
(50:52)They have this tick or take thing on the end of the car that tells you how fast the train's going. We sitting there going 325 miles an hour. It's like you're not even moving. You're going across the countryside is flat plains. And then you look up and then there's a city with skyscrapers, and I don't want to go into it too much, but what I saw in just those few days I was there was incredible. And so they're not keeping allowing people to understand what's happening in China. They have an urban development policy that when they create these cities and these communities, every social service in that community has to be within a 15 minute walk. The hospitals, the schools, the elder care, 15 minute walk is fully integrated everything that you need. So you compare this and what I saw in terms of infrastructure, it made the US look like, unfortunately, like a developing country and see the bourgeois there, they know this, but they're not telling the US population how far behind the US has fallen.
Wilmer Leon (52:18):
Well, and a perfect example of that is 5G technology. The Chinese approach, the United States, I'll say now, 15 years ago about working with the Chinese on developing 5G, and the United States said, no, we don't need to work with you on that. And so China went ahead and developed 5G. And with that we're talking about the internet of things and the ability of your refrigerator to talk to your cell phone to talk to your car, all of that kind of stuff. And so now when you turn on your phone, it says 5G, but the United States does not. All we really have is faster 4G. It's not truly the 5G technology that Huawei and other Chinese companies have developed. And they're now, they're on their way to six and seven G. We just don't get it.
Ajamu Baraka (53:26):
And the funny thing about it too, the US thought that they were going to undermine the Chinese by undermining the ability to have access to advanced Chips, chips. But they are rapidly developing their own capacity for that. And see, people don't understand as part of the struggle with Taiwan, also the home of one of the largest semiconductor chip factory in the world.
Wilmer Leon (53:55):
Psc, is that what? It's
Ajamu Baraka (53:56):
Something like that, yeah. Right. And that reincorporation of Taiwan into China would be a nonviolent and relatively seamless if it wasn't for the agitation on the part of the us. This notion that Chinese want to invade Taiwan militarily is all complete and utter nonsense. There is a political process there. There was developing in favor of the Chinese until the last few years when the US really began to ramp up is meddling within the Taiwanese political system. So that's part of the issue that basically the technological advances that the US has, and they still have some, that gap is being progressively narrowed down.
Wilmer Leon (54:50):
And as we move on to our final segment, there have been studies and reports put out by various elements within the government that if China were to invade Taiwan, and that's not on anybody's drawing board, I always challenge folks that want to have this conversation with me, show me one time where President Xi Jinping has said that they're planning to invade China. You can't find it because they're not going to do it. But the United States says if that were to happen, the United States would blow up the TSC, I think it's TSC chip manufacturing facilities so that they would not fall into the hands of China. And now China has designed its own chips, it's on its way. Necessity is the mother of invention, and China is on its way. I want to tie something else into coming back to the northern hemisphere, and that is this immigrant conversation.
(56:01)All of this conversation about the Republicans in the house are trying to hold up this defense bill because they say there's not enough money for the immigration bill. But in all of this bipartisan discussion about immigration, nobody talks about the American foreign policy in the region as in Central America and South America that is basically forcing these people to leave their homes and come here. The analogy I use is if you're sitting in your basement watching a game and water starts coming down your stairway, you want to close the basement door instead of going upstairs and figuring out, oh, either your tub is overflowing or your sink, your kitchen sink is overflowing. They just want to close the, they don't want to turn off the spigot. And the way you turn off the spigot is by changing your policy. That is decimating the economies of Nicaragua decimating the economies of all of these other countries in central and South America. They never talk about the US foreign policy policy that creates the motivation or motivates these folks to want to come here. They just talk about building a wall to keep 'em in Mexico.
Ajamu Baraka (57:31):
No, they don't talk about that. And what's interesting too is that you remember at one point the Democrats pretended to be the party of progressive immigration policy, but who talks about that now? Now they are the party that has embraced the same kind of policies of Donald Trump border security expanding a wall. So there is consensus now among both wings of the ruling class represented by the Republicans and the Democrats on this issue of so-called border control. And they're never going to talk about the kinds of imperialist policies that are decimating the economies of Central America and parts of South America driving immigration. That's not part of their analytical framework. And so an understanding of these forces, again, has to come from sources like your show and other alternative sources that help people to understand the complexities of the world and sometimes how simple some things are. Like you destroy an economy and people have to find a way to survive, and they are a few hundred miles away from the most powerful and richest country on the planet. We need to go there. It's quite simple. So this is what has to be dealt with a better understanding on the part of people in the US to these issues and understand that you have more in common with understand. Understand that basically if we're able to put a break on these imperialist policies, these exploitative policies in Latin America, in South America and in the us, then we have the material basis for all of us to live a little better. So that's really where we need to be going. That's the level of understanding we have to arrive at.
Wilmer Leon (59:47):
And you talked about, I'll use these words, the misinformation and the disinformation in western media. I want to hit on one more thing, but before you go, if you can just give me two or three more minutes, and that's Haiti, and that could be three hours on its own, but this is from the Washington Post this week, rebel leader who ousted risid set sights on Haiti's current leader. The crisis here keep compounding armed. Gangs have forced more than 300,000 from their homes. The police are outgunned and overmatched. Half the people don't have enough to eat. This Caribbean nation of 11 million has no dramatic democratically elected officials. The National Assembly is empty, the presidency is vacant. That's left Arial Ri, the unelected and deeply reviled prime minister in charge appointed by president jovial Moise days before. Moise is still unsolved assassination in 2021 on re was due to leave office on Wednesday, but is so far successfully stymied a political transition. They're talking about GI Philippe coming back into Haiti. And this is written as though the United States has had absolutely no involvement in the decimation of Haiti. And so people read this from the Washington Post and they go, oh, these poor, ignorant, silly Haitians, they just can't seem to do anything for themselves. We must intervene and save them from theirselves. Doesn't talk about GI Philippe. And he was an American operative and how much time he spent in American prisons and how, by the way, does he get back into Haiti after none of that ajamu Baraka?
Ajamu Baraka (01:01:37):
You're absolutely right. And the situation in Haiti has become almost untenable. And that's how they wanted, he was reinserted into Haiti to intensify the chaos, to make the situation even more ripe for outside intervention. They don't trust him. He doesn't trust them. But there is a convergence of interest, short-term interest that is
Wilmer Leon (01:02:05):
Financial interest,
Ajamu Baraka (01:02:07):
Financial interest, political interest, right? Is it terrible situation in that country and one that we have to continue to monitor because the result of this situation is the possibility of more violence inside the country as the consequence of those issues.
Wilmer Leon (01:02:23):
And this is another example of the United States through what it created called the Global Fragilities Act. It is creating the fragility and then claiming we now have to use the US military to go in and resolve the chaos that we created in the first place.
Ajamu Baraka (01:02:41):
Exactly. That is the objective. That could be the end result if we don't stop it.
Wilmer Leon (01:02:50):
Brother Ajamu Baraka, I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
Ajamu Baraka (01:02:54):
My pleasure. Thank you so much Dr. Leon.
Wilmer Leon (01:02:57):
I want to thank you all for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wilmer Leon. Please stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow me on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. I'm going to see you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wilmer Leon. Have a great one. And remember that this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history, converge talk without analysis is just chatter and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. Peace and blessings. I'm out

The Decline of Western Influence

Find me and the show on social media @DrWilmerLeon on X (Twitter), Instagram, and YouTube
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This week our guest is Vijay Prashad.
TRANSCRIPT
Announcer (00:06):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Dr Wilmer Leon (00:14):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon, and I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I, we have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between the current events and the broader historical context in which they occur. This will enable you to better understand and analyze the impact on the global village in which we live on today's episode. The question is, is the West's hegemonic control over the rest of the world on the decline? If so, is it salvageable for insight into this and other issues? Let's turn to my guest. He's an Indian historian, editor and journalist. He's a writer and fellow and chief correspondent at Globetrotter. He is an editor of Left Word Books and the director of Tri Continental, the Institute for Social Research. He's a senior non-resident fellow at Sean Yang Institute for Financial Studies at the Remnant University of China. He's written more than 20 books, including the darker nations and the Poor Nations, and he's the author of the article, hyper Imperialism. He's Vijay Prade. Vijay, welcome to the show.
Vijay Prashad (01:45):
It's great to be with you. Yeah, truly.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:48):
Thank you so much for giving me time in your peace. Hyper in imperialism. Well, in fact, let me start this way. Lemme start this way back in 2016 at the Democratic Convention, then Vice President Biden said, we do not scare easily. We never bow. We never bend. We never break when confronted with crisis. No, we endure, we overcome, and we always, always, always move forward. We are America second to none, and we own the finish line. Don't forget it, Vijay. The undefeatable indispensable America are terms that are often used, well worn tropes, the realities that are existing all around us. Make these statements trite and meaningless to me. Your thoughts?
Vijay Prashad (02:47):
Well, it's interesting Wilmer, because Mr. Biden made those comments, as you said in 2016. In 2023, the United States forgot to celebrate the 200th anniversary of the Munro Doctrine. Now, for those who don't know the Munro doctrine, it was enunciated by James Munro. The idea was pretty simple. Ro was saying for this new country, 1776 Revolution, 1923, Monroe Doctrine, I mean in the 18th century, a decade was a very long time. I understand that, not like now where you're sometimes just goes by so quickly. Time seems to have speed it up, but nonetheless, a young country in 1823, Mr. Monroe says at the time that, look, we just told the British Empire to go out of our shores. Not exactly because Britain still had Canada as a colony, but nonetheless Britain out of a part of North America. The United States hadn't yet ejected the French from all of North America, and there was also pockets of other Europeans involved in North America, let alone South America.
(04:13)So nonetheless, quite audaciously, Mr. Monroe said, with the backing of the whole political class. Don't forget, Jefferson had already foreshadowed some of this stuff in his speeches, but Monroe said, look, Europeans, this hemisphere, the Americas from the tip right down to TGA del Fuego is not yours. The Americans will determine the destiny of this hemisphere. Now, of course, he then said something else which is, well, we in the United States have a manifest destiny, very delightful term from Christian eschatology about the city on the hill, the church at the town square and so on. We have a manifest destiny. We are Europeans. We are Europeans who have gone beyond the Europeans in Europe, and we want to make it clear not only as Europeans, because there are Europeans in South America as well, but we want to make it clear that it's America for the Americans, except when we say Americans, we mean those from the United States of America.
(05:23)So that in fact the Monroe Doctrine, noble words as well, the MRO doctrine basically says the whole Americas is the domain of the United States. The United States therefore can intervene anywhere in the Americas when it feels that its interests or the interests of an enlightened civilization are threatened. And therefore we had a range of interventions, military interventions, most of Central America, much of the Caribbean, Haiti, colonized recolonized United States goes into Dominican Republic, the assault on Cuba after 1959. And so all done on the basis of Thero doctrine of 1823. Now, it's interesting because Wilma, I could make an argument what the United States did subsequent to the So-called Spanish-American War where the US seizes, the Philippines seizes, Puerto Rico seizes Cuba. You see, it's a very good example of Thero doctrine being, well, it's America for the Americans, but really Americans means the United States of America. After the Spanish American War, 1898, the United States starts to globalize the Monroe Doctrine.
(06:44)And in fact, that's what happens in the aftermath of World War ii because by the aftermath of World War ii, the United States did have the technology therefore could actually have a global MRO doctrine, military bases having ships that could cross the Pacific Ocean pretty rapidly, oil fired ships could get through the Panama Canal, could go out to the Suez Canal. You had an amazing global military footprint bases all over the world and so on. That was the global MRO doctrine. Well, what's happened is that as a consequence of a number of different factors, including in the United States, the government no longer wanting to regulate the rich and therefore harvest taxes from them for a host of reasons. That's one, the lack of any kind of consensus among the elites in the United States, deep partisanship and so on. And then the trauma of this third grade depression, all these factors came together to basically signal a decline of US global power.
(07:57)That is, you still have the rhetoric of the Monroe Doctrine, Mr. Biden's speech in 2016, but you don't have the realities of the Monroe Doctrine. You can bomb any country around the world, but you really can't have legitimacy over them. If a country, for instance, on the African continent needs to have a bridge built, they turn to China now to get money for that bridge to build the bridge. The United States very good at bombing the bridge, not so good at building the bridge. And I think that itself, the bridge story is a way to encapsulate the nature of the decline. In other words, US still has immense military power, spends with its allies, three quarters of world military spending, but just doesn't have the resources to do the kind of development aid it used to build the legitimacy that it once did. You said shop won cliches, tired language and so on, reporting to Mr. Biden. Yes. And the reason for that is not because Mr. Biden is out there flogging old clothes. It's that no us politician in fact can flog anything but tired. Shop one rhetoric and belligerence, they can do that legitimately, but they can't go out there and say for instance, to the people in the Sahel, Hey, listen, don't do all these cos we'll come in, we'll build a factory. We'll build a bridge for unbelievably to even once hear them say, we'll build a school, we'll build a hospital. Not going to happen Wilma, not in our lifetime.
Dr Wilmer Leon (09:43):
You just mentioned that the United States has extraordinary military supremacy, but the irony in that reality is the United States for all intents and purposes, hasn't won a conflict since World War ii, unless you want to throw Grenada into the conversation. United States had its hin parts whooped in Vietnam. The United States had its hin parts whooped in Afghanistan, 20 years in Afghanistan, what two and a half trillion dollars wasted, and we wound up turning the country back over to the same folks that we were fighting to take it from. We lost in Iraq, we lost in Libya. Now we've been outmaneuvered in Ukraine and of all people, Ansar Allah in the Red Sea is having traumatic impact on international trade. So yes, the United States has military superiority, but it seems as though the nature of warfare has gone almost asymmetrical and the United States hasn't been able to keep up.
Vijay Prashad (11:05):
Well, one of the issues is the difference
Dr Wilmer Leon (11:08):
Is that assessment accurate?
Vijay Prashad (11:10):
Very accurate. I mean, look, let's just take one of your examples. Let's take the example of Afghanistan. You said over $2 trillion spent by the United States doing what? And that's a key thing. Doing what? I want to come back, Wilma to that distinction between blowing up the bridge and building the
Dr Wilmer Leon (11:30):
Bridge and building the bridge.
Vijay Prashad (11:31):
You see, because the United States can win battles, it can win a military confrontation. You can win a battle. I mean, I was there and saw the destruction of Iraq after 2003. You can destroy power plants, take out bridges, just level the government buildings to all those things win. But war have never, never been won merely by battles. Now, there could be lots of examples in the ancient world when an army was in fact defeated and another army came in and occupied and conquered and oppressed people. But in a way that's still not a victory in the war because unless you are able to do something for the people you've occupied, unless you are able to create legitimacy for yourself as a new government, a new king, a new ruler or whatever it is, there's no way to win the war. War just merely by force.
(12:31)So in the case of Afghanistan, it is absolutely true. When the US went in there in October of 2001, the bombing was ferocious. The Taliban fled from Kabul, from Jalalabad. The Taliban remnants of them that had been sitting near the Pakistan border just ran across the border to Pakistan. They fed. I mean, you remember the battle of Torah, Bora when apparently Osama bin Laden was holed up in a cave there, the United States was ping those mountains. The Taliban was fleeing. They don't want to fight a direct battle. Nobody wants to stand Wilma in a plane and be taken out by a drone. Okay? The United States can do that. Incredible technology as a young person sitting in Nevada in Las Vegas with a toggle stick in a red button can kill somebody in the of Afghanistan, in Pakistan. Extraordinary technology having chased out the Taliban, having bombarded the infrastructure.
(13:34)What happens next? Here, let's go to Iraq where it's clear, clearer. Lots of journalists looked at this closely. I mean, pram Chatterjee wrote a great book called Iraq Inc. In other words, Iraq Incorporated. What did he mean by that? What he meant was it was open season, Wilma, there's a Hollywood film about this. A bunch of, let me just speak pretty straight with you here. A bunch of jackasses from God knows where Republican party people showed up in Iraq, got contracts from the US government, from the people who were the vice councils of the United States in Iraq. They didn't build anything. Let's go back to Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, they began to count Wilma, and this is horrifying. They began to count educated. When they say so many hundreds of thousands of children are in school in Kabul, okay, how do you know that so many hundreds of thousands of children are in school in the area around ka?
(14:43)How do you know that all across the country? How do you know that? Well, we know that because somebody invoiced the government for chairs. So if I invoice for a hundred thousand chairs, the US government and the Afghan government stunningly and scandalously said, we have a hundred thousand people in classroom. Meanwhile, a hundred thousand chairs were not even delivered. I just invoiced you. I took the money and ran. You never saw me again. I mean, you look at the audits done by the US government of the spending in Afghanistan, scandalous spending. So you can win the battle. You can't win the war. You're not building schools, you don't have kids in classrooms. Then families say, what's the point of throwing out the Taliban and bringing you guys in because you are just corrupt. Those people, they may have their problems and indeed, my God, they have their problems.
(15:42)They want gender segregation. No girls in schools and so on, but at least they're not corrupt. That's what people started to say again about the United States government in Iraq, the same thing. People go, why is there this attitude? Let's make a quick buck. Why? Because people have been learning this since at least the Reagan administration in the United States. This cannibalization of society is not something that only happens abroad. You are familiar with that Within the United States, there's so many. There are even terms where it boondoggles. The US military forgets hundreds of millions of dollars. They can't find where that money went. I mean, this is annually. There are reports that come out on this money forgotten, this boondoggle culture among the elites. It makes them mediocre. They don't want to work to be an elite. They want to inherit elite status. Everything is about an inheritance.
(16:46)They don't want to work hard. They don't want to do anything. It's interesting because in Afghanistan, the British, for all their flaws, they said, well, we have experience of three to 400 years of colonialism. The British were saying, you people don't have the staying power. Well, actually, Rory Stewart and others who were saying things like that, they were not right. It's not a question of staying power. It's a question of did you want to win the war or did you just want to win battles and then come in there and quickly make a buck and flee, go off somewhere else? As I said, a Hollywood film was made about this. It's in the culture, this conversation. I'm not making this stuff up. It's real. So yes, United States very big military capable of blowing up bridges just to repeat that, but not so committed to building them.
(17:39)And that's how you lose your legitimacy. If you no longer give people something that they want or they need, you don't address their problems, you're not going to be credible. Look, during the pandemic, the Chinese announced that they've ended absolute poverty in China, so enormous fe, the United Nations celebrated it and so on as we speak, Wilma, I was reading a story that there's a bill sitting in the US Congress about tax credits to be given to families so that millions of children in the United States can for the period of just this calendar year, be outside poverty. I mean, how does a story like that look around the world here at the Chinese saying, we've eradicated absolute poverty and here's the United States Congress debating whether or not to eradicate poverty, mind you, whether to pass tax credit so that for one year so many tens of millions of children in the United States can be above the poverty line.
(18:43)I mean, what's going on, Wilma? This is something for people in the United States to reflect on very seriously. Is this the country that looks credible to the world? When you have somebody saying, we own the finish line. I mean, what a revealing statement that is. Joe, Joe Biden. I mean Joe, nobody owns the finish line, Joe. That's why it's a finish line. If you own the finish line, Joe, there's no race. You rigged the race, and that's exactly the attitude that people in the United States need to confront. You can't live in a society that's rigged against you. You have to fight to build a society where people feel like something is there for them, and that attitude then will create new speeches. People will realize we're not a city on the hill. We don't have a manifest destiny. There is Noro doctrine. We're just people.
(19:38)We live on the planet. We've got to collaborate with others, whether it's the people in Yemen or other people in Libya or indeed the people in the Democratic Republic of Congo. I want a cell phone. I want to use their cobalt. I want to use their cold tan, but they have a right to live decent lives. I need to pay them. The corporations need to pay the people in the Congo that are digging that stuff up with their fingernails, and that's the scandal, and that's the discussion around that scandal that needs to happen in a place like the United States.
Dr Wilmer Leon (20:14):
And to Joe Biden's point and to your response about owning the finish line, if you claim to own the finish line, then that means that you control the finish line, and that also means that you can move the finish line. And that takes me to Tony Blinken term. Well, George HW Bush talked about the new world order, and then Tony Blinken comes in with not international law, but what's the term that Tony Blinken always loves to use about the controlling order? I can't remember the term that Tony Blinken loves to use, but it's where basically what he's saying is we have the rules, we set the laws. You all just follow what we say.
Vijay Prashad (21:09):
Yeah, this is his phrase, the rules based information,
Dr Wilmer Leon (21:11):
Order based order. Exactly. Exactly
Vijay Prashad (21:14):
Why you forgot it, Wilma. This is a because
Dr Wilmer Leon (21:17):
It has no definition.
Vijay Prashad (21:18):
No, it means nothing. And also it's one of the things that was there when Mr. Blinken was nominated for this job. You remember this very well. They praised him saying He's fluent in French. I thought, and I'm sorry to be so blunt, and I know that a lot of your listeners are serious people and they don't like this kind of talk, but I felt that Mr. Blinken, if he doesn't make sense in English, can't be making sense in French. So there's that rules based international order. What other kind of international order could there be? Tony? That's the question to ask him are they're all rules based. The question is who makes the rules and does everybody abide by the rules? Okay, we actually have rules that are based on
Dr Wilmer Leon (22:13):
Do we even know what the rules are, Tony? Yes.
Vijay Prashad (22:17):
In fact, that's the interesting part, Wilma, because okay, the question to ask them is what's the basis for your rules? In fact, the most consensus treaty document we have in the modern world since 1945, the document with the greatest consensus is the United Nations charter. There is no other document which has almost all countries signed onto it, okay? It's the greatest consensus document that we have in human history till now. Maybe there'll be another one, but the UN charter is paramount, and in fact, I would say that most people around the world want to live in a rules-based order, which is grounded in the rules, which we've all accepted by treaty, which is the UN charter, not the rules being something invented by the United States government at its whim by let's say the group of seven countries by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, by the 14 Eyes Intelligence Network.
(23:22)They don't get to make the rules and impose them on us. I mean, what's really, really interesting in this period is that for the first time in my mind, since the 1970s, for the first time, we see heads of governments who are not necessarily leading political forces that are anti, whether it's the president and prime minister of Namibia, their political formation isn't anti systemic. Even in fact, Ali Pando and Il Rama, South Africa, these political forces are effectively telling the United States, now, we don't like your rules. We don't think your rules are good. Why? Because we think they are capricious and we think you don't follow them. What's the point of having rules if you don't follow them? So for instance, when international courts, the International Court of Justice demanded a ceasefire in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. In fact, just a month into that conflict, they called for a ceasefire.
(24:29)A thousand people had died at that point. By the way, now, 25,000 Palestinians and counting dead, the ICJ didn't exactly call for a ceasefire. They said that we see that it's plausible genocides, an enormous admission by the ICJ, and then they said, you must do everything to end the genocide. Well, that means a cease file. They don't use that language. They don't say secession of hostilities. Nonetheless, what's interesting is people around the world, whether it's again in Namibia or it's Indonesia or it's in Bolivia, people, ordinary people not talking about governments, ordinary people are saying to their newspapers and so on. When I meet them, as I travel around the world, people say this to me, what they are saying is, look, when it's an African leader indicted in the international criminal court, the west goes all in. They demonize the person, and in some cases these people deserve to be in front of the ICC.
(25:27)They've done bad things, but the level of demonization, the music is cranked up really high. These people are bad. They're committing crimes against humanity and so on here, 17 judges, 15 sitting judges of the international criminal court, the judge from Israel, the judge from South Africa, 17 judges basically to a account of most of the time, 16 to two, in some cases, 17 to one. The Ugandan judge was the outlier, and in fact, even the government of Uganda disassociated itself from her saying she doesn't speak for our government. In fact, very interesting and we can talk about that if you'd like, but most cases 1716 to two was the count, which means that the international criminal court, the court of the United Nations has basically said Israel's actions are plausible genocide. What does the United States, Canada, almost the entirety of the west do within our, they defund the United Nations Agency for the Palestinians Honora, within hours of this coming out, this order that the Algerians wanted carried immediately to the Security Council United States, I mean around the world, people are saying, you people are not credible, Mr.
(26:49)Biden, you are not credible, and anyway, you are a one term president because you've lost left liberals in your own country. They're not going to vote for you after this and you've lost the election. I mean, Mr. Trump is going to come back, whatever that means, maybe catastrophic, but he's coming back. That's probably a foregone conclusion without legitimacy, Mr. Biden, Mr. Macrow, Mr. Trudeau, Mr. Soak, Mr. Schultz, I mean, you're so bent out of shape about Ukrainians because as people at the time were saying that these are white babies with blue eyes and blonde hair, but Palestinians, brown skin, black hair and so on, some of them have by the way, blonde hair, but nonetheless, not white, irrelevant. We're not even talking about the war in the Sudan. We're not talking about the war in the Democratic Republic of Congo. We're not even talking about the ceaseless destruction of Yemen.
(27:49)The reason the US and Britain are nuts, they think a couple of missiles will scare the Yemenis. Forget it. They've taken much more and more than that from the Saudis for a decade. They're not scared of anything and they've been hardened. What has hardened them? Not Islam, not some inherent accusation that they're terrorists. What has hardened them is your bombing. It's British and US ammunition used by the Saudis bombing them relentlessly for 10 years. People look at all this and say, you never complained about any of that. One Russian tank crosses the border. One Ukrainian is killed and suddenly you are outraged and you say, open the doors, all Ukrainian refugees allowed, but Syrians, you still remain in the camps in Greece or in Turkey, wherever Palestinians, we don't apply. And so on. The stock hypocrisy, racism, a lack of concern for human life, what I consider to be an international division of humanity.
(28:57)That's what's really been drawn. There's an international division of humanity and the other side of that division, the prime minister of Namibia, the president of Indonesia, even the Indian foreign minister, right-wing government, they are now speaking from the other side of the international division of Vanity saying no more. I mean, Mia Amor Motley, the prime minister of Barbados last year convened a group for an emancipation conference. A former president of Nigeria was there, the former Prime Minister Addison from Jamaica, and they basically said, we're going to have reparations from the west. This is Barbados tiny country just thrown off the monarchy. And what happened this year recently, the African union's 55 countries, the 20 countries of the Caribbean community gathered together and said, reparations now of putting it on the agenda. This is not a radical demand, by the way. It's a pretty milk to demand, but it's actually showing this new mood. They're saying, we're fed up with your hypocrisy. We're fed up with your intervening, your attempting to foist the international monetary fund on us sending your warships to scare us. It doesn't work anymore. People, you politicians are too mediocre. You don't scare us, and Trump is that dog that western civilization is going to let loose against the world bark all night Wilmer, he'll bark all night, but he won't have the guts to bite anybody or to enter the house.
Dr Wilmer Leon (30:34):
You mentioned about Ansara la in Yemen and the fact that United States can't scare them, that takes me back to President Putin's statement. When Joe Biden first sent the USS Gerald Ford Aircraft carrier group into the Mediterranean, and Putin said, why are you doing that? Who do you think you're going to scare? These people don't scare. And in fact, Al Hhi in Yemen said, we want to fight you. They are saying, and who would think that this small country called Yemen where most people couldn't find it on a map of Yemen is saying, we want to fight you. Please. That's an amazing, amazing reality, and you also mentioned about not following that we have this rules-based order and we don't even follow the rules. Well, Joe Biden has just signed an executive order where he now says the US may sanction Israeli settlers who attack Palestinians. Now that's an interesting contrast or conflict or just total confusion. When the United States is sending weapons, sending money, logistical support, targeting support to the IDF to attack Gaza, but now seemingly for political reasons, he wants to issue this executive order and oh, by the way, Joe Biden's administration approved the sale of the very weapons that the settlers are using to murder Palestinians, but now he wants to try to sanction them for using the weapons that he sent Vijay. It's insanity.
Vijay Prashad (32:45):
You put it very, very well. I mean you put the point very plainly, but let's again look at this executive order. I think they named four people in this, and one of them in fact has already made a public statement saying, listen, I don't have any bank accounts in the United States. I'm not affected by this not planning to travel. There don't have any assets there. This is just symbolic. One of the people named has already said that this is bogus, not a critic of this, but what Biden doesn't do here and doesn't have the guts to do is there are thousands of US citizens in these illegal settlements. This executive order doesn't touch a US citizen in an illegal settlement who goes and shoots a Palestinian. It doesn't touch that person. This is just directed at those who are Israeli citizens, but not US citizens. Many of the US citizens are also Israeli citizens. They have joint citizenship, but this is not, he is immunized US citizens in this. That's one point. Secondly, he doesn't really sanction anybody. I mean, you want to give a real sanction, sanction Israeli politicians who are inflaming the settlers. What about putting them on the list? I mean
Dr Wilmer Leon (34:08):
Smoke trick for example.
Vijay Prashad (34:10):
Exactly. Why should they not? Why should universal jurisdiction not cover them? You look back at the international criminal court warrant against Mr. Potent and his minister of children, they were accused and maybe there is an accusation to be made there. They were accused of removing children from a war zone in Ukraine. They were accused of removing children from the war zone. Now, fourth Geneva Convention does say that population transfer is illegal, but let's have a discussion about that removing children from a war zone, is this appropriate? Should they have been removed to Russia? Did they go with the consent of their parents? There could have been a range of discussion and debate. I don't remember any debate. I just remember being told that this is a war crime and the ICC indicted him. Now, the Israelis have already killed over 11,000 children. They didn't remove children from a war zone in the way that the Russians did.
(35:13)They did remove children from a war zone, but by killing them, 11,000 of them in body bags, 11,000 of them and no ICC warrant and no statement from the United States government instead this ridiculous executive order that's supposed to modify his base. You see what's been happening is I watched these videos, Mr. Biden traveling around the country, the United States trying to drum up support for his failing election campaign and at every single stop, it seems to me, or at least that's what circulates, I know this is not exactly a scientific assessment what you see circulating, but at many campaigns stops. He starts speaking, he's talking about a woman's right to choose whatever he's talking about. People yell, genocide, Joe, they yell, seize fire. Now they yell, stop supporting Israel and he is a dear in headlights as any of us would be a caught between a really bad policy that you can't defend and a base that is angry with you because let's not forget that this is a base that might not be scared into voting. Again for the Democrats, this is a base that might say, really, Trump is so bad and you were so great, you authorized a genocide against the Palestinians. I don't think this base is coming back.
Dr Wilmer Leon (36:37):
Lemme quickly say to that point. That's a great point and I've been saying for a while that in 2020, Joe Biden was talking about how horrific Donald Trump was and he was making a lot of promises about what he would do. He had no track record as a president. Now in 24 he has a track record as a president and he's now starting to make some of the very same promises in 24 that he made in 20, and folks are comparing his promises and his rhetoric to his record and they're saying You didn't do it then why are you going do it now?
Vijay Prashad (37:21):
In fact, worse than that, the people who are out there at these rallies saying genocide, Joe sees pie. Now these are people with a modicum of interest in what's happening outside the United States. They're not people who are going to focus on quite correct issues like for instance, a woman's right to choose. There is some difference between the candidates and so on. Not that the Democrats have done much to defend the woman's right to choose or on the question of immigration. I mean the Democrats haven't done much better than the Republicans in some cases, maybe even worse
Dr Wilmer Leon (37:54):
Because it's more important to them as an issue, as a political wedge issue than it is for them as a solution.
Vijay Prashad (38:04):
Correct? Exactly. So what you have is you have people genocide, Joe Ana. These are people who are saying, I'm not a single issue voter. I'm not going to be wedged by you back into the fold. You can't wedge me and you can't wedge me because I'm looking at these other things. And there are lots of young people in that cohort and one of the areas where they're looking at is Cuba. This July norm Chansky and I are going to release a book called On Cuba, which is where the reason I know all this stuff about the MRO doctorate, and I mean I'm not a scholar of all this, but we had to study this to understand US foreign policy against Cuba. We did a deep study. It was a pleasure to work with. No on this book, it's not an interview book. We wrote this together.
(38:51)We discussed and talked and went through it and so on Cuba, there's a section in the book toward the end where Mr. Biden says, during the campaign says that I am going to reverse Trump's unfortunate strangulation of the people of Cuba. We are going to remove Cuba from the state sponsored on terrorism list. We are going to roll back the 243 extra sanctions, no more talk as John Bolton did of axis of whatever it is of tyranny and so on. Bolton speech, none of that. Biden said all that there, this video of him saying all that. It's not like some private interview, which he then denied. He said this in front of the cameras. Well, then he came into office, he won the election, came into office. Jen Psaki at the time, spokesperson was asked, what about the reversal? He can by executive water get rid of some of these sanctions.
(39:52)You can start the process to remove Cuba from the state sponsor of terrorism list and so on. Because Cuba, after all is a state sponsor of healthcare for the world, not terrorism, a bad idea Trump, and now Biden Biden didn't do anything and Jen Psaki said, it's not on our agenda. Now what you just said ferociously, I'm going to reverse Trump's. It's not on our agenda now. Then there was some small protests in a small town, a few hours outside Havana, which the anti Cuban people in Miami blew up and said, it's a big protest in July and so on, he is going to overthrow the government. Then Biden entered and said, we are going to tighten our grip on the island because we have to support the people fighting. So not only did he not do what he said because it was not on the agenda when he started to do something about Cuba, it was in fact Trump plus.
(40:52)So in that case, what the heck, man? I mean, where are you genocide, Joe? That's what people are calling him more and more. That is not a good look for a president or for a person running for president of the United States on the Democratic ticket because I admit to you, I know a lot of the people on the left and so on, but don't underestimate the power of that small section of left liberals because they are the activists. They are the ones that go door to door In South Carolina for instance. There is no such thing as a democratic party. There are only motivated activists who are the people. It's mostly middle-aged women and young college students who go door to door distributing things, talking up candidates, going into churches, talking to their friends and so on. If that crucial section is started to call him genocide Joe and say, ceases fire now, and to ask questions like, why are you trying to suffocate the people of Cuba?
(41:58)Why can't you pass a proper infrastructure bill? Why are you arresting and deporting people at the border? Activists say that you lost the election because there's no body else to substitute for them. You can have as much astroturfing as you want. You can get all the high rollers around the United States to give your campaign money. You can hire people to go with clipboards, but they don't have the passion to stand on the door, stop to stand at the front door, knock on the door, say, listen, you got to vote for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. They're just going to stand there with a clipboard. Say, I have been told to say, please vote for Mr. Biden, it's chat GPT, man, you don't win elections with chat GPT, you win elections with passion. It's not going to be there for them, and I think they have made a huge, huge error trying to believe that these little executive orders will claw back that section.
(42:56)The only thing that's going to claw back that section is something that neither of the political parties can do. Mr. Trump can't do it either. None of them can break with the Israeli ruling elite, none of them. None of them will offer a robust criticism of Israel. That's a serious problem for the American elite. The American public on the other hand, has already broken that consensus. You've already seen the polls, Wilma, a majority maybe up to something like two thirds of the United States. Public no longer wants the US to support Ukraine with money. Correct? Two thirds of the US public, correct. A majority of Republicans don't want the United States to support Israel in this war. A majority of Republicans, that's interesting. 40 some percent of Democrats have turned against this war. That's compelling evidence to my mind once more of the great disjuncture in US politics between the people's mood and their opinions and what the governments want to do.
(43:56)Nancy Pelosi was confronted by some protestors from Port and what did she say? She said, oh, you are all doing the work of Russia. Russia. I mean for God's sake to use this kind of language against US citizens who have a First Amendment right to protest the FBI, my God, I can't believe I'm going to say this. I just got word this evening before we spoke. The FBI has made a public statement Wilmer saying that we will not investigate people who are conducting nonviolent protests on behalf of the Palestinians because those people doing the protests have a First Amendment right. The FBI has said that
Dr Wilmer Leon (44:38):
Mean because Nancy Pelosi called upon the FBI to investigate those protestors saying that they were operatives of Russia and here was her rationale. Putin has a message saying that there's genocide in Gaza and these protestors are saying that there's genocide in Gaza. So because the protestors have the same message as Putin, ergo or Ipso facto, they must now be operatives of Russia when everybody on the planet should be opposed to genocide. Even Nancy Pelosi should be opposed to anybody in their right mind should be so even if Putin is the autocrat, is the dictator, is the madman, is whatever is the evil villain is a swamp monster and an evil villain. A broken clock is right twice a day. So the issue on Gaza, he's right on that issue.
Vijay Prashad (45:59):
Well, I'm actually personally invested in this particular part of the conversation because some months ago, the New York Times basically accused me of being an agent of the Chinese government. It was a ridiculous article. I mean, I was embarrassed to read it, not embarrassed for myself, embarrassed for the New York Times. I was like, man, you guys wrote some pretty shoddy articles with the name Judith Miller attached to them that basically made the case for the United States to go to war illegally against the Iraqi people. You got some pretty bad journalism under your hat, the gray lady all these years, but this particular article was really bad because it essentially took certain quite trivial facts like I run a research institute, I also work for a media house. I have people who donate to these things. I can't travel to the SA region on money. I borrow from my friends. I need donors for this because when I publish things, I can't get enough newspapers to pay me enough to actually travel to places. You got to forward fund a lot of these projects. I'm not embarrassed to say that I don't come from money. I'm not independently wealthy. I don't have that kind of trust fund that would enable me to live the kind of
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:26):
George Soros won't back you, so
Vijay Prashad (47:28):
Yeah, he's not going to back me. I've got to find people, and by the way, the Chinese government gives me zero money. In fact, my post at the Chang Yang Institute of Financial Studies is non remu. I don't make any money at all. They don't pay me for anything. The reason I took that position is I was keen to interact with Chinese scholars. I wanted to have a place where I could sit down and listen to what Chinese scholars are thinking and saying, almost no place in the world that allows that unless you get involved somehow with a Chinese institution because they don't trust. You can't just show up in Beijing and say, Hey guys, I want to talk to you so I don't have any Chinese. They know that. By the way, the New York Times know that they knew the provenance of the funds.
(48:09)They knew everything they had all the material, the questions that the journalists asked me. I'm going to give this to you just because it's so funny. David, far andhold the journalist, senior journalist New York Times wrote big questions like, for instance, are you paid by the Chinese government? Do you take orders from the Chinese government? I mean, I felt that this is not journalism's McCarthyite hearing. It's the kind of question you'd expect some off the wall, right-Wing congressman to ask you, Lindsey Graham, that kind of thing, going from McCarthy to Lindsey Graham and to somebody as mediocre as Marco Rubio who read that article and the next day asked the Department of Justice to investigate all the projects named in it. Fortunately, either the Department of Justice is doing an ongoing investigation that I don't know about or they decided not to take Mr. Rubio seriously, which I think is probably what happened.
(49:10)But the point reason I'm raising this is that it's really interesting in the United States unable to have the argument. Why can't Nancy Pelosi have the argument about Gaza unable to have the argument about Russia, let's say, or unable or unwilling to have the argument about China? They simply want to repress you. They want to say anybody who doesn't follow the line saying China is evil, Russia is evil. The Palestinians are terrorists. Anybody who moves even one millimeter from that general line, they just want to repress you. They want to delegitimize you. They want to basically put you in jail. They don't want to have the argument with you, and that I think is depressing for the whole situation of the culture in the United States, the political culture, the conversations, I mean for God's sake. I watched a couple of the Republican primary debates before the Iowa caucuses.
(50:14)I watched a few of them. The level of conversation was abysmal. It was juvenile. Juvenile. There are real problems in the world. I mean real problems that guy Ram, he actually did a favor for us culture because we Ramas proved once and for all that all South Asians aren't at the caliber of doctors and whatever. There's no model minority. I mean there's mediocrity even amongst South Asian Americans, mediocre. He's out there as an attack dog of somebody just sort yelling at people. I felt bad at moments even for DeSantis, for God's sake, let the man try his best to put an argument on the table. Don't keep interrupting him and saying, Ron, you is Ron, you're that. And then DeSantis piling on Nikki Haley, I thought, God, you are just a bunch of people that if I saw you in the bar, I would get out of there, get into my car, drive across town.
(51:16)I would prefer to buy a bottle at a liquor store and sit in my car, not car. I would prefer to sit in the anti room of my house and drink it by myself. I don't even want to be within sight of you when I'm having a drink, let alone let's say in front of a congressional committee. Really mediocre level of discussion if that's the standard of discussion, no wonder that if they are challenged, let's talk about Gaza. They'll just say, you are a Russian agent. Get out of the room. I don't want to talk about, I just heard Megan Kelly who had Trump on her show for an hour. She has a YouTube type show. Anyway, Megan Kelly was on a podcast I was listening to a very, very interesting, she was talking a little bit about this, about the fact that the deterioration of the ability to actually have a discussion about ideas, the big ideas, you want to have a discussion about immigration, let's have a discussion about immigration. Let's not demonize all sides and not talk to each other about how to understand these issues.
(52:29)There is no space for that and therefore Nancy Pelosi turns around and says, FBI investigate them. They're criminals. And fortunately somebody at the FBI had managed to read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and decided, Hey, listen, they have a constitutionally protected right to speech as long as they are nonviolent. Now, I found that an interesting part of their statement because in fact, I'm not even sure that's necessarily true because for instance, this goes back to Dr. Martin Luther King's letter from Birmingham jail. Does nonviolence include, for instance, resisting chaining yourself to a wall, blocking a street and so on there? I think we could have an interesting discussion with the lawyers at the FBI that What do you mean by nonviolent? I mean, if I go and lock myself into the office of a congressman, are you still going to say I a right to that speech? Because after all, you can't lionize the civil rights movement and then criminalize its tactics today, which is exactly what they seem to be doing. Nancy Pelosi will stand up there and say, the great Dr. Martin Luther King, when I marched with him across Selma, as you know, every living American politician marched across Selma with Dr. Martin Luther King. I marched across, but then if you try to march across the Brooklyn Bridge, you are an agent of Russia.
Dr Wilmer Leon (54:00):
You were mentioning the United States is better at blowing up bridges than building bridges, and the Washington Post has a very interesting article. China sets sites on Taiwan's three remaining tiny Pacific Islands, and here's an interesting element of this as China. This is from the Washington Post as China Vs. With the US for power and influence in the Pacific. It has tirelessly tried to pry allies away from Taiwan. By many means, chief among them money, it has offered much needed funds to struggling island nations like Nru and allegedly doled out envelopes of cash to officials and accusation. Beijing denies China has approached Pacific politicians as they travel overseas, inviting some to lunch and surveilling others what they're slaying out. I mean, that sounds like lobbying to me. And what they don't say in the peace is, well, China's not assassinating rulers in these islands. China isn't involved in their elections. China isn't overthrowing their governments. China isn't involved in China, is engaged in building relationships with countries, and they're doing it by determining what the country needs, seeing what China can provide and how there can be a win-win. And that's not rhetoric. That's, as you know, that's an actual policy strategy of the Chinese government win-win, and somehow the Washington Post makes it out to be nefarious, and there's something spooky going on here because China's actually building relationships with these people not coming in, building air bases, army barracks and shooting people.
Vijay Prashad (56:12):
Well, there's something in this Taiwan China story that the Washington Post also won't cover. There's something really interesting. Well, firstly, it is settled treaty position of the United States that Taiwan is basically a part of China that was established when the United States agreed to remove the Republic of China from its permanent seat at the UN Security Council and replace it with the People's Republic of China. This was right there in the 1970s, part of the Nixon Mao negotiations and so on. Okay, so why is the United States so desperate to hold on to Taiwan? Lemme give people a little glimpse into things that don't get talked about. Taiwan is the home to a company called TSMC. TSMC is one of the world's largest chip manufacturers. In fact, 90% of the advanced chips used in cell phones and other electronic gadgets made by TSMC. The United States worried about eight, nine years ago that if China was able to incorporate Taiwan, not necessarily by political incorporation, but even just economically, what was John Adam's statement?
(57:29)That by the natural force of gravity, Cuba will fall into the US lap. They were salivating about that, by the way, because it was about the Mississippi River and the slavery complex. They wanted Cuba part of that big slavery kind of economy down the Mississippi River all the way to Cuba, like the force of gravity. Cuba will fall in. Well, United States worried by the force of gravity. Taiwan is going to fall into the lap of China, economic links, everything that post. So United States government then started talking to TSMC saying, look, you have to set up a factory in the us and indeed United States opened the door in Arizona. They built a big factory. Washington Post ran a story about it. It was a huge thing. Lots of engineers came from Taiwan. The factory went nowhere. Why the Taiwanese engineers said, we can't work in these conditions. People just don't. They don't work. I mean, whatever they said, I'm not even judging anybody, but they turned home. That's what they said. That's what they said. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there.
Dr Wilmer Leon (58:33):
They couldn't find the workforce that they needed to perform the tasks that needed to be performed. That's what they said.
Vijay Prashad (58:41):
That's what they said. And then they went back home. So TSMC still in Taiwan and actually also on the Chinese mainland produces a lot of these advanced chips. Now, United States tried to squeeze China's ability to buy these chips, but what they're really worried about is that TSMC will come to the realization that they cannot, absolutely cannot accept the US sanctions on China that prevent TSMC from selling chips to China, because China is one of the biggest markets for those advanced chips. There's also a Dutch company that produces very advanced electronic equipment for Chinese. They cannot afford to stop selling to China, and because of that, the United States will buy to anything to maintain Taiwan. But there's a real worry that they can't control it because in Taiwan, people are saying, sanctioning China is bad for us, bad for our economy. That's the natural cause of gravity. John Adam's statement didn't work for Cuba. It might work for Taiwan.
Dr Wilmer Leon (59:51):
And as we get out, what did Joe Biden, or what did members of the administration say when Nancy Pelosi was getting ready to go over there and there was all this concern that China might shoot her plane out the sky and all this other kind of stuff. The Biden administration said, if conflict breaks out between China and Taiwan, the United States will blow up TSMC. The United
Vijay Prashad (01:00:21):
Imagine that
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:00:22):
Threatened to blow up the TSMC factory on the mainland of Taiwan on the island of Taiwan. If conflict broke out, that to add additional validity to your statement, that's how and what that also did, as they say, necessity is the mother of invention that forced Huawei to develop. Just speaking on the cell phone side of things that motivated Huawei to expedite their chip development, their phone development, and they now have developed this, I can't remember the name of the phone, but their latest cell phone also now has satellite capability.
Vijay Prashad (01:01:14):
Imagine that.
(01:01:16)Look at what I would be able to do with a phone like that, Wilma. I mean, the fact of the matter is just to underline all these points and give you the bottom line. The fact of the matter is it's very clear that we are at a fork in the road. The legitimacy of the old colonial countries of the global North has declined precipitously ever since the war in Ukraine and this war in Gaza. And at the same time, the kind of confidence in the global south, the new mood in the global south has really altered the confidence levels has risen. That's where we are. You asked at the beginning of the show, can this be turned around? I don't think so. I think what people in the United States must try to do is to recognize that everybody who lives on this planet earth is equal, and the people in the United States are not more gifted or more entitled or anything very good people in the United States, but nothing special compared to other people in the world. We got to live as a planet. We have to collaborate. We can't talk about finished lines and races. That's not where we're going. This is a human family and we have to treat each other in a better way than we do our own families
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:02:40):
And the solution to the conflicts are not military. One of the things that I have been saying about the conflict in Gaza is that Israel has bombed the world into reality, and people now see the horrors that have been ongoing for the last 75 years. It's playing itself out on their cell phones. It's playing itself out all through social media, and people are now finally looking at this, and they are, it's similar to, I believe it's similar to what Dr. King's strategy was with the children in the protests and the nonviolent protests. Do not respond to the brutality. Let the world see the brutality for what it really is and people will be aghast. And now the response in Gaza has bombed the world into reality and people all over the world, with the exception of Joe Biden and Tony Blinken and Samantha Power, who by the way wrote a book about genocide and now people on her staff are resigning their positions, asking her, well, wait a minute. I thought you wrote a book about your side. How can you back this play? The responses to the solutions to these problems are not through sanctions, and they're not through militarism and violence. They are through negotiation and accommodation, and the sooner the United States understands what Brix understands and what the Chinese cooperative and so what all of them understand, the better off we're going to be.
Vijay Prashad (01:04:32):
I mean, I agree with you fundamentally got to hope and believe that these changes, this new confidence arising in the world is going to provide a path out of the madness. We are at a fork in the road. Let's not choose madness.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:04:49):
Let's not choose madness for no one wins in that debate. Vijay Prade, thank you so much for joining me today. Folks, I want to thank you all for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wimer Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow, leave a review, share my show with those and love, follow us on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. I'm Dr. Wilmer Leon. Remember, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. Peace. I'm out

Black Men Are Losing Their Faith in Joe Biden and Democrats

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TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:37):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Dr Wilmer Leon (00:45):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon and I am Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I will have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between the current events and the broader historic context in which the events take place. This will enable you to better understand and analyze these events that impact the global village in which we live. On today's episode, the issue is the Guardian and other outlets have reported that the Biden campaign has decided to jumpstart its 2024 reelection by highlighting what they perceive to be a sharp contrast with former President Trump ailing in opinion polls. Biden has decided to jumpstart this campaign with events designed to symbolize the fight for democracy and racial justice against Trump. So the question is, what are Americans to do in a 2024 election when many of them don't have faith in the process and or the system? Well, for run insight into this, let's turn to my guest. He's a scholar and activist. He's an expert in WEB Du Bois, one of the most cited Du Bois scholars in the world. He's an organizer with the Philadelphia Saturday Free School. He's Dr. Anthony Montero. Tony, welcome to Connecting the Dots podcast.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (02:31):
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here
Dr Wilmer Leon (02:32):
With you. And let's do this as a first point here, just a little data. Joe Biden's job approval. This is according to real clear politics, 40% approve, 56% disapprove. That's a negative, almost 16 rating direction of the country. Is the country headed in the right direction? About 24% say right direction, 67% say wrong direction. It's about a negative 42% spread. Tony, your thoughts on where we are right now as we look towards November of 2024?
Dr Anthony Monteiro (03:30):
Well, I think we have to start with the polling numbers. Over the last, almost five months now from reputable polling companies, Biden has been losing to Trump and his favorable numbers have been in decline. In fact, in many respects, Biden's approval numbers are below 40%. The real clear politics numbers are an average.
Dr Wilmer Leon (04:13):
Yeah, that's an aggregator. Yes,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (04:15):
That's right. But I think for the most part, for the most credible polls, we're continuing to see Biden in the mid thirties. This is unprecedented for a sitting president at this stage of a campaign,
Dr Wilmer Leon (04:36):
Not only in the mid thirties, but heading south. He's, and no pun intended as it relates to the border, but as they would say on the corner, he's hustling backwards.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (04:50):
Oh, yeah. There's no question this is unprecedented. I don't think this has ever been seen in the modern history of polling presidents and their attempts at reelection. I think what the public is saying is that we don't trust Biden. His presidency has failed. Inflation is still hitting working people in the lower middle class, very hard. The jobs that they are counting as showing a vibrant economy are in many cases, gig jobs, jobs without benefits, jobs without security, and in many cases at the lower end of the minimum wage. So
Dr Wilmer Leon (06:00):
In fact, hang on to that point because one of the things, the misnomers that people have about these employment or job numbers is that they equate job to one person working, one person, working one job. But in this gig economy, what that now means is in many instances you have one person working multiple jobs just to remain poor When you were growing up, when I was growing up, we heard these job numbers and they usually meant one person, one job. That's no longer the case. But they don't factor that into their analysis, particularly as they're explaining these numbers to the people. So when you hear, oh, unemployment down to 3.5%, there are also a lot of other factors that go into this that don't reflect a strong economy. What they reflect is a middle class, a working class in a poor group of people that are struggling to get by.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (07:23):
There's no question about it. And people are saying to pollsters what you, and I know that the majority of working people, the majority of the lower middle class, are not doing good at all. People cannot afford food. And that is where the rubber meets the road, where you go to the supermarket and try to buy eggs and milk and cereal and other things that you need. And there you discover that inflation is as bad as it's ever been while there's some relief at the gas pump. But when it comes to feeding your family, things are not good when it comes to paying rent or renting an apartment. Things are bad when it comes to getting a mortgage. You can almost forget that. So the Biden campaign, who in the spring and summer of last year said they're going to run on omics until they realized that that was a sure enough loser because Biden had produced an economy which was austerity for the majority and good times and big profits for the billionaire class reflecting the fact that inequality is greater now perhaps than at any time in the last 80 years. This is a serious situation for the people. And when people say that the country is moving in the wrong direction, forgive me when 70% of them say that what they are saying is things don't look good for them and things look even worse for their children and grandchildren, that is where we're at going into perhaps the most consequential election in the modern history of the United States.
Dr Wilmer Leon (09:39):
In fact, to that point, there have been studies and reports out recently indicating that the American dream is dying. I want to say, and I might be slightly off on my numbers, but the point is valid, that polling those who were born in 1940, almost 90% of those born in 1940 are now doing better than their parents were able to do those born in 1980, only 50% of those polled were able to say that they're doing better than their parents did. That tells us that the American dream is dying. You mentioned last year Biden wanted to run on omics, and I have to now wonder if it's been determined that omics is no more than voodoo economics, a La George HW Bush referring to Reagan's plan. So we're talking voodoo economics 4.0.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (10:47):
Yeah, we're looking at something like that. But we're looking at the fact that the Biden administration and the Biden campaign have no way to achieve narrative hegemony. That is, they thought that given the fact that most of the corporate media or all of the corporate media would be a propaganda arm of the Biden administration and of his reelection campaign, and given that elites, for example, university professors, politicians, part of the religious community, certain labor leaders or most labor leaders would all be on their side, that they would be able to achieve narrative hegemony, by which I mean that what they were putting forward would dominant over what their opposition would try to put forward. So the narrative would be controlled by the Biden campaign. That has not happened, and the reason it has not happened is that the nation is in a profound crisis of legitimacy where no matter what Biden says, the results will be the same in terms of the majority of people. They don't trust Biden, they don't trust insiders. They don't trust elites. Be they university professors or presidents, be they politicians, be they church leaders, be they labor leaders, be they military leaders. People do not trust the institutions and those who lead them in this country, and therefore this point
(13:02)People will vote against rather than vote for necessarily. People. I think in November, and this will gather momentum throughout this year, will kind of set into a mindset that says anybody, but those who are currently in the highest office of the country, they will vote against Biden. Biden will not be able to dig out of the hole that he's in. So I would predict that in November we will have a new president, and not just a new president, but the nation will enter upon in this year a political realignment, the likes of which we have not seen since the Franklin Roosevelt years in the presidency.
Dr Wilmer Leon (14:13):
I wanted to throw out one more data point on the food issue because we have been seeing stories on local media affiliates about the rise of retail theft in this country, and we've been seeing the flash mobs that run into the high-end stores and steal Gucci bags and all kind of stuff. But what's not being reported as much is theft of retail in grocery stores, people stealing food and the guardian in the UK has us to the international implications of this, Brits stealing food to sell on the black market. The UK's cost of living crisis is fueling a record surge in shoplifting as people increasingly turn to black to the black market for food, the items most commonly stolen are meat, cheese, and sweets, because those are the items that can be stolen in large quantities and can be sold on the black market. So I wanted to make that demonstrate that point to show that it's not only happening here in the United States, it's also happening to some of the US allies that are blindly following the United States down this perilous rabbit hole. And you mentioned as a fellow political scientist, we were taught people tend not to vote against things. They vote for things, but in this instance, the script is being flipped because things are so bad. That's why Biden can't run on his record. He's got to run on, I'm not Trump a negative message trying to convince people to vote against something. And so I just wanted to, oh, final point. I don't think Biden's going to be on the ticket.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (16:20):
Yeah, why do you say that? I think that's a possibility. But why do you say it?
Dr Wilmer Leon (16:24):
I say that because the numbers are so bad. I don't understand how anybody in the Democrat party elite can look at these numbers and think they've got a winning ticket. That's one point. No,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (16:44):
That's fine.
Dr Wilmer Leon (16:45):
When you're at 35% approval rating, that means that you got 65% of people that disapprove. That's a losing bet. And also with his cognitive decline, I don't see, look, they're not having any debates in the primaries. They're not having any debates. They're not allowing any Democrat challengers to challenge him. And they've also come out now and said they may not even participate in the general election debates because they know that he cannot stand on a stage unscripted for 45 minutes and engage in combat, in intellectual combat. He can't do it. I don't see him on the ticket.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (17:34):
Well, I would agree with you, and I think given what you just said, there's a big irony here. The Democrats are shutting down all the primary opponents for Joe Biden, even though those opponents, Marian Williams and the other guy are doing abysmally poorly. I mean there's no way they can win, but the Democrats don't even want to have a public debate with those people. So they're shutting down democracy in the name of democracy of
Dr Wilmer Leon (18:16):
Democracy
Dr Anthony Monteiro (18:18):
And the claim that Trump is a threat to our democracy, when in fact what we see is that the Biden campaign is pursuing a campaign that is anti-democratic in the primaries and in the general election and supports. This is what is also interesting, supports the two states that have already kicked Biden off the ballot and the Trump
Dr Wilmer Leon (18:53):
Kicked Trump off
Dr Anthony Monteiro (18:54):
The ballot, Trump off the ballot, forgive me, and the 17 others that have legal suits that have been filed to put him off the ballot. So here we have in the name of democracy, perhaps the most anti-democratic campaign in our history.
Dr Wilmer Leon (19:20):
You mentioned people not trusting in the, well, I mentioned people not trusting in the system. You mentioned that as well, and I really want people to understand this conversation is not an antibi conversation. It's not an anti or pro-Trump conversation. We're social scientists and we're looking at the data, and Pew Research Center has a poll out from September of 23, public trust in government from 1958 to 2023, public trust in the federal government, which has been low for decades, has returned to mere record lows following a modest uptick up through 21. Currently fewer than two in 10 Americans say they trust the government in Washington to do what is right. That's the data. That's not my opinion. That's not your opinion. That's the data. So I just wanted to throw out that data point. So the people listening to this saying, oh, these guys are going into this antibi conversation. No,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (20:32):
We're
Dr Wilmer Leon (20:33):
Just giving you the numbers.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (20:35):
And to your point about Biden not being on the ticket by the time of the Democratic National Convention.
Dr Wilmer Leon (20:45):
Now that is my opinion, but
Dr Anthony Monteiro (20:47):
Yeah, that's my opinion. But you have leading figures in the Democratic party calling for Biden to step aside. They're usually saying on the basis of age, but they're also saying more than that when they're not speaking publicly. A lot of this is coming from the Obama wing of the Democratic establishment. As you know, the Biden wing, which is also the Hillary Clinton wing is the most powerful side of this. However, the Obama people, especially Axelrod and probably some others have come
Dr Wilmer Leon (21:41):
Out. David Ignatius,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (21:43):
David Ignatius. Well, definitely I would say, but I would say he's not with the Obama wing. Oh,
Dr Wilmer Leon (21:48):
No, no, but no, I was just saying he wrote, he came out before Axelrod
Dr Anthony Monteiro (21:53):
Did. That's right. That's right. And so these figures are saying Biden can't win. Robert Kagan who writes mainly on foreign policy is saying that for the sake of national security, Biden should step aside and allow a more capable Democrat to challenge Trump. But the thing is, the question is will Biden do it and can he do it? What do they do? Who do they turn to if Biden is not the candidate? Kamala Harris, certainly not. No, I just don't. I mean maybe the governor of California, but besides winning California, which Democrats will win anyway, what does he bring to the conversation and to the contest for the presidency? I just don't think they have an alternative to Biden. They're going to have to go with him, come hell or high water. And that is the paradox, the dilemma of the Democratic Party at this moment.
(23:17)And to add more hurt to the situation with the war in Gaza and people looking at babies and children and mothers being bombed, Biden has now lost the youth vote. Trump is leading him by six percentage points among young people. I don't know when in recent history a Republican has won the youth vote, maybe Reagan, but Democrats almost could take young people as a part of their coalition, and now they are bleeding. Black voters, especially black male voters who I contend are the angriest part of the electorate, the most alienated, the most angry. And those who say, for example, if you are in the barbershop, you might hear the conversation where one of the people says, I am for anybody except Biden, and I'm for the one that the Biden people and the establishment hate the most. If Biden hates them, I can see a path to aligning or voting for them.
Dr Wilmer Leon (24:55):
You mentioned who do the Democrats turn to in a baseball analogy? I will say they got no arms in the bullpen. They're calling the bullpen and nobody's answering the phone. But I think the only options they have are Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, and Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan. And I'm not saying that this is a winning ticket. What I'm saying is any port in a storm, and they don't have many options here. Gavin Newsom is young. Gavin Newsom is white. Gavin Newsom looks great in a suit, and he's the governor of California.
(25:49)So let me say he checks off those boxes. Gretchen Whitmer is young, white female, fairly attractive, and the governor of Michigan, which is a state they can't afford to lose. And right now to your point, based upon Biden's approach to the genocide and Gaza, they've alienated African-Americans in Michigan. They've alienated Arabs in Michigan. So by putting Gretchen Whitmer on the ticket that might enable them to salvage Michigan, and by throwing Kamala Harris overboard because she's a big fat zero, by putting another female on the ticket, they may be able to offset some of that ire from females or from women who are angry about Kamala being jettison. So I'm not saying it's going to win. When I look at the options, when you have no options, that's your only option.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (27:00):
It's a desperate situation. And then you got Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And Cornell West, and who knows who else. If there's a no labels candidate like Joe Manchin or the former governor of Maryland and they're nipping at Biden's coattails, head up, Biden Trump, it gets close. But if you throw these independents in there, Trump goes ahead. It seems like the independents take more from Biden than they do from Trump. Trump. It's a very desperate situation for Biden and the elite of the ruling class, the ruling elite, they have no answers. It's just all over the place. The president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haes, went so far as to say the greatest threat to America's national security is not Russia or China. It's the rebellion of the people here at home who are against war, who are against war spending when there is not hardly enough being done for the people here and who are angry about open borders. I mean, it's a situation that I don't admire the people who have to live it and have to try to work through it. It's a lose lose situation, I think for the Democrats.
Dr Wilmer Leon (28:48):
I want to mention one more name, and we mentioned Kamala Harris, and so there are those who are listening that they're saying, wait a minute, why are y'all saying they're going to throw her overboard? Well, as the sous chef of the word salad, I don't know that Kamala Harris brings anything of substance to the game. She had to leave the campaign early and she didn't even make it to the first debate. Well, she did make it to the first debate, but she didn't make it to any primaries. She couldn't get 1% of the vote. So again, folks, this ain't anti Kamala. I'm looking at the numbers and the African-American community didn't want her. Why is the nation going to want her again, sous chef for the word salad? I don't see it. But you were also talking about people, black males and others voting for Trump. How much of this do you think will be actually people crossing over party lines versus people just deciding to stay home as a friend of mine says they're going to stay home and rake leaves, they're not going to turn out to vote.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (30:17):
Well, we see it here in Philadelphia. We just went through a mayoral election, the Democratic primary, which is the major election that chooses the mayor because the city is so overwhelmingly democratic and the leading candidate, one of the two or three leading candidates was a black woman. And in spite of that, 75% of registered black voters did not turn out when it got to the general election where her victory was more or less guaranteed. Again, only about 25 or 26% of registered black voters turned out, and this is for black woman, which would've made her the first black woman mayor in Philadelphia. Most black voters didn't see it as a historic opportunity to do anything. But that is prologue for what will happen in this November, black Philadelphia whose turnout decides which way the state of Pennsylvania goes in presidential elections, I would suggest to you will not turn out inadequate numbers to deliver Pennsylvania, which is a major battleground state to Biden.
(31:52)They are fed up, they're tired, and in fact, they're sick and tired of being used by Democrats who once the election is over, look the other way, in fact run in the opposite direction from the black community and so on. All of the issues that people are concerned about in their day-to-day life, the Democrats who run this city have done horribly for people. And the separation between the Democratic party elite and politicians and the masses of black people who regularly vote overwhelmingly for Democrats is so wide that the way I see it right now, Biden would have a very difficult time winning the state of Pennsylvania.
Dr Wilmer Leon (32:57):
What do you think about the discussion that if in fact he loses or whoever they decide to put on the ticket does not prevail, they're going to blame black people for failing to turn out? We're seeing a number of articles. There was a New York Times article, black voters shift to Trump, why black, Latino and Asian voters are leaving the Democratic Party as black voters drift to Trump. Biden's allies say they have work to do. Some black men lose faith in Biden and Democrats In 2024, I remember the Hillary Clinton campaign, and when she lost, there were many and many African-Americans and African-American women of Democratic note that were coming out and saying we did not turn out. Therefore, we got stuck with Trump never taking into account that Hillary Clinton ran a horrific campaign in Philadelphia. She ran a horrific campaign. She didn't campaign in Michigan. She rolled out Barack Obama the last two or three days of the election, just as my older brother would say, just felony stupid kind of things, but then turned around and blamed us. Your thoughts,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (34:32):
My is so what I mean the blame game is going to be played however the election goes. And I think as a black man, most black men don't care anymore who blames us for whatever. We are the most politically alienated group in the electorate. We feel that we have nothing to lose by abandoning the Democratic party, which most black men feel, especially as you hit into the working class and the working poor, most black men feel that we have gotten nothing from the Democratic party. And let me tell you another thing, black men have a longer memory than people give us credit for. We haven't forgotten the crime Bill of 1994 and Joe Biden being the major spokesman for it publicly and in the Senate. So we haven't forgotten that. We haven't forgotten mass incarceration. We haven't forgotten the unequal treatment that black men experience in every sphere of social life in this country. There is deep resentment among black men. Polls can't fully detect and explain what black men feel, but it's a deep resentment and a sense of betrayal. So I think black men, no matter what elites say, don't care anymore.
Dr Wilmer Leon (36:29):
So now the Biden administration has decided that they're going to, they're going to retool. They're going to talk about democracy and saving democracy when in fact, not having democratic primaries, not allowing candidates on the ballot to run against Joe Biden not having debates is anti-democratic. So they want to save democracy by being anti-democratic. Help me understand that. But people also don't, probably many never knew and don't remember that after the 2020 election, Joe Biden was basically forced to have a meeting with African-American leadership, those that were responsible for putting him over the top. It was probably about 10 days, maybe two weeks after his inauguration that they finally got him into the room. And the readout from the meeting was that he was so disrespectful to the members of leadership that Reverend Sharpton and so many others, mignon Moore and all of these black Democrats begged him for the meeting. He comes to the meeting and I think it was a teleconference that they had or a Zoom meeting, and folks had to pull his coat and say, Hey, man. Instead of the leadership hanging up on him saying, Hey, dude, you talking to the wrong people, they, of course, they went ahead and took the whipping, but just another data point. So now they want to come out and talk about saving democracy and racism under Donald Trump,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (38:27):
Why people are not going to buy it. The whole country is in a state of protest against the establishment. I don't think people understand this very well. A crisis of legitimacy means that the people do not accept the leaders of the society. And that means in universities, it means politicians, it means journalists. It means wherever a dominant elite figures run things, people reject them, soundly reject them. I always mention the Italian revolutionary, Antonio Gramsci who said from a prison cell where he was confined by Benito Mussolini, the fascist leader of Italy in the 1930s, Graham, she said, the old is dying and the new cannot yet be born. I think in this country we see that the old system of political rule of the organization of political power is dying. However, I do see that the new is being born and it's from the bottom up, not from the top down.
(40:03)And if you are a black leader who is connected to white elites, black folks see you as much illegitimate as the white power structure. They don't see a difference between the black leadership class as it is now called and the white establishment. So black people do not generally protest blacks in high spaces being fired by whites that control those spaces because they don't see those people as black in the sense of standing up for ordinary black people. So what is the end goal? What is the objective of this logic? It is a profound political realignment of the country. You see it in the labor movement. Labor leaders take one position and all the workers in those unions vote in the opposite way. Not all, but the majority of them vote opposite to what the leaders say or how the leaders say they should vote. That is a crisis of leadership, a crisis of legitimacy.
(41:32)The same true in the black community. Most black leaders, the overwhelming majority of so-called black leaders are going to come out and say to black people, we should vote for Biden. I would say a huge part of the black electorate will not vote, and a considerable part of the black electorate will vote for Trump or one of the independent candidates, either Cornell West or JFK Jr or whoever else is out there. They're in rebellion, in the labor movement, in the black community, in the Mexican and Hispanic communities. There's a rebellion against the established order and the elites can't rule. They're not trusted. We have not seen this. We have not seen this, I don't know, even in the time of the Civil War, if it got this bad. Now, desperate times often produces desperate measures. Let's hope that the elites, especially those institutionalized in the deep state, don't attempt to do anything crazy like a provocation that could be used to justify calling the election off or a provocation that could lead to a major war, let us say with Iran or something serious with China where they could declare a national emergency and say that if Biden does not remain in office, the nation faces a foreign threat that could undermine our nation.
(43:47)I don't rule any of that out. I think the easy way would be to remove Biden and put somebody else as the candidate. But that does not guarantee very much Gavin Newsom or anyone else might not do as well as Biden can do, even though they look good in a suit. But I think it's a more than desperate situation. It is an existential and a systemic crisis for the ruling elite for the political order as we have known it. And so Biden and knows who are the elites. The Democratic party is the party of elites. In fact, the two parties are almost the direct opposite of what they were 50 years ago where the Democrats were a party of black people in the working class and women and so on. Now, it is becoming the opposite that the Democratic Party is the party of the rich.
(44:57)It is the richest party, the most wealthy party perhaps in human history. There's nothing like it. Whereas the Republicans have become what the Democrats were. And so it is a deep undoing of what was and the possible replacement with something that we have not seen since The Great Depression in Franklin Roosevelt. His administration was the result of a political realignment, and his presidency redefined what the Democratic Party was leading to John F. Kennedy. And finally, the alignment of the Democratic Party with the Civil rights movement. That was the last time we saw anything like this. But we are coming close to that happening similarly in this period,
Dr Wilmer Leon (46:07):
And you mentioned Black Elite coming out and telling African-Americans that they need to vote for the Democratic party, and let's unpack quickly what they're advocating that we vote for. They're advocating that we spend more money in Ukraine, that we waste more money in Ukraine, that we pay for the salaries of Ukrainian civil servants, that we pay for the retirement plans of Ukrainian civil servants that we pay for the healthcare for Ukrainians. We don't have those things here. That's when the Black Caucus votes in favor of this funding. This is what they're voting for. They're voting for us to send more weapons to commit genocide in Gaza. Your taxpayer dollars are paying for genocide. It's paying to try their damnedest to start a fight with China. We haven't won a fight since 1953.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (47:23):
Yeah, that's true.
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:24):
Unless you want to throw in Grenada and Panama.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (47:31):
Yeah, I think we won that, right? Maybe you could throw Iraq in there. No,
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:38):
That was an ass whooping too.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (47:40):
Oh, I didn't know that. I was going to say I wouldn't include Korea in there because that was a standoff.
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:47):
That fight still hasn't ended.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (47:49):
Yeah, that's right.
Dr Wilmer Leon (47:51):
So you mentioned Gramsci. I'll mention Fred Hampton as he said. That's why we come up with answers that don't answer explanations, that don't explain, and you come up with conclusions that don't conclude. When you have members of the caucus that want to convince black people that we need to pay Kenya to invade Haiti, these are the things that they are advocating that we do. And how do I know that? Because that's the stuff they voted for. Again, you just got to look at the data, Dr. Montero.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (48:33):
Well, of course, and I think, well, we've been talking about these matters for a long time. In a sense, the majority of black people have caught up to where we have been, and they don't trust the Black Congressional Caucus. They might sometimes trust their individual Congress person, but not the caucus, not the Congress
Dr Wilmer Leon (49:05):
As a body,
Dr Anthony Monteiro (49:06):
As a body. That's what I'm saying. Right. And certainly the more they learn about their individual Congress person, the less they will trust them. And you are right. Black people have returned after the Obama years to our historic position of being anti-war and anti-military spending, and most in the Congressional Black Caucus are big military spenders. They are big spenders on aid to Ukraine and now to the genocide in Gaza. Well, some people say that the Jewish lobby or better the Israeli lobby in the United States controls the Congressional Black Caucus and many of the mayors, black mayors in the United States, for example, the one in New York and the one here in Philadelphia who are embarrassments given the historic peace attitude, anti-war attitude of black folk.
Dr Wilmer Leon (50:20):
So really quickly to that point, help me with what I perceive to be hypocrisy here. We get our shorts all in a bunch when Russia is tampering with our election and our hair gets set on fire. China is tampering with our election, but somehow the Israeli lobby can spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying votes and influencing electoral outcomes at the state and local level. I see that as being somewhat hypocritical. Dr. Montero, what Say you?
Dr Anthony Monteiro (50:59):
I agree with you, Dr. It's profoundly hypocritical, but isn't that what American politics has descended into where money talks? The Congress for the most part, is bought and paid for, and it is really a grotesque thing for we black people to look at black elected officials who overwhelmingly are elected because of the black voter, and we have to be for real about it. We didn't actually, as a people have the vote until 1965, and now the people who have benefited from the struggle for voting rights and benefited from black people voting in hope, that by putting black people in high places, some things can change. We are now looking at, as you say, a hypocritical group of opportunist who dance to the piper that pays the most.
Dr Wilmer Leon (52:18):
That's why I called it. I wrote a piece called The Dangers of Menstrual Diplomacy.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (52:24):
I saw that. Yes.
Dr Wilmer Leon (52:25):
Because it's basically a black face on white folks foolishness.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (52:31):
That's right.
Dr Wilmer Leon (52:32):
Really quickly shifting gears are what has happened with the resignation of Harvard's president, Charlene Gay, and I bring that up because she's one of a few that have lost their positions recently. Do you see this as an attack on free speech? Do you see this as an attack on intellectualism at the academic level?
Dr Anthony Monteiro (53:06):
Well, yes, but it did not start with the president of Harvard or the president of the University of Pennsylvania or of MIT or the faculty at Cornell University or wherever. The universities, especially the elite ones, had been captured by the billionaire class some time ago. If you were looking for freedom of speech, maybe the last place that you should have gone would've been to a university. The professoriate has literally been subdued, silenced. They know how to keep their mouth shut, and they know that if they speak out on issues, they shouldn't speak out on the Palestinian cause, that they will be fired and driven out of the university and driven into poverty. Now as to the first black president of Harvard University, she wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, and in it, she drew attention to the fact that what she was going through was much larger than her and much larger than Harvard University.
(54:40)And it was a matter of speech and the rights of students to speak as well as the rights of faculty. But I cannot believe that she did not know what she was getting herself into when she was made the president of Harvard, she had been around Harvard for some years. She knew, for example, that Cornell West was denied tenure while she was there. She wasn't president, but she was in the administration. Cornell West was denied tenure because of his views on Palestine. You knew that. So why is it all right to reduce Cornell West and to diminish him as a scholar and a public intellectual? And nothing is said by most of the black faculty, if not all of the black faculty and administration at Harvard, but suddenly, when it happens to you, it's something that we should all rise up and be concerned about. No, Harvard had done away with effective free speech several decades ago. The American University is a scandal of corruption, of money controlling what goes on of professors and departments being bought. It's a scandal. So yes, she is right. It is an attack upon free speech. But has it been free speech any of the time that Professor Gay has been at Harvard? I don't think so,
Dr Wilmer Leon (56:49):
And I go back to the George W. Bush administration. When Dick Cheney was vice president, his wife Liz, was one of those crusaders against liberal thought in academia, and I can't remember whether it was the Heritage Foundation that she was part of, but she led a crusade across this country getting what they deemed to be progressive thinking academics removed from their institution. So this goes back quite a while.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (57:32):
Yeah, no, when you said his wife, I think that's his daughter,
Dr Wilmer Leon (57:36):
Liz. His daughter is Lynn.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (57:39):
Oh, oh, I'm sorry. Well,
Dr Wilmer Leon (57:41):
Either way. Either way. It's either Lynn or Liz.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (57:44):
Yeah, Lynn or Liz. Okay.
Dr Wilmer Leon (57:46):
One of the
Dr Anthony Monteiro (57:46):
Two. I recall that very vividly. I know I had a situation at Temple University where what I stood for and the speech that I was trying to defend was not acceptable.
Dr Wilmer Leon (58:05):
Lynn Cheney, you're right. It's Lynn Cheney.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (58:08):
Yeah. It was not acceptable to the head of the department, and so I was fired. So this is not new. I'm saying to those who are now saying, well, I'm a victim because it happened to me. Well, why were you silent when it was happening to other people?
Dr Wilmer Leon (58:30):
It happened to me too.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (58:32):
Yeah, it happened to you too at a historically black college to show you that it does not end at the color line. And black people have learned well from white people how to silence, freedom of speech. But yeah, the American University has to be remade. It is a corrupt enterprise. It is a billionaire's playground. Universities are more interested in gentrification and building up their endowments than they are with educating students educat or discovering new truths. I think there was a recent article in one of the major newspapers, the New York Times, Washington Post or somewhere that said that at Yale University, everybody is given an A one. It's less work for the professors. They don't have to grade papers and so on, and everybody walks away happy. And so we find at universities this transactional relationship between professors and students. Students say, I'm going into debt to get a degree at a university, and the professor work for me, and you must give me what I want because I'm paying for an A or high grade.
(01:00:03)I read someone somewhere where Professor said that, well, I gave a student an A, and they came to him. The student came to him and said, well, why didn't you give me credit for that outside presentation I gave? He said, because we don't give a pluses. Well, you could have made an exception. In my case, it's just that bad. And professor Gay, I think there's the other question of her scholarship and whether she plagiarized, and I think the university has acknowledged, or the committee that was looking into it, acknowledge that in fact, plagiarism did occur, but let's keep it real. That's normal in the academy where careers and tenure are the most important thing. So a professor might write on a very obscure matter that is published in a relatively obscure journal, which claims to be peer review and use that obscure article, which may be plagiarized for tenure.
(01:01:27)And so the question is, what is going on among elites? Let's be real. The president of Harvard is part of the elite class. Professor Gay, as was the case with the president of the University of Pennsylvania, got caught up in elite conflict having to do with the question of Israel and Zionism, and whether or not Jews are a protected group, who stand above society and whose interest have to be defended. Even if in defending the rights of Jews and Zionists, you violate the right to freedom of speech of students and professors. That's what they got caught up in and that's what brought them down.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:02:36):
And by defending that, you also are defending genocide.
Dr Anthony Monteiro (01:02:39):
Yes. Oh, no question.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:02:41):
You mentioned plagiarism. Well, Joe Biden has plagiarized. He became president, so that seems to be the order of the day. Professor, Dr. Anthony Montero, my brother, thank you so much for your time. I greatly, greatly appreciate you joining me today, Anthony Montero
Dr Anthony Monteiro (01:03:06):
And thank you and good luck with your podcast Will.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:03:09):
Amen. With interviews with brothers like you, this is nothing but success. I got to thank you all so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Woman Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. I'll see you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wier Leon. Have a good one. Remember, folks, that this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history, converge talk without analysis is just chatter. We don't chatter on connecting the dots. Peace. I'm out
 

The United States Keeps Starting Conflicts It Can't Win

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TRANSCRIPT:
Announcer (00:38):
Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.
Dr Wilmer Leon (00:46):
Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they occur in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode of this podcast, my guests and I will have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events in the broader historic context in which they occur. This will enable you to get a better understanding and be able to analyze the events that impact the global village in which we live. On today's episode, we explore the genocide in Gaza, the development of conflict on the continent of Africa, and what does all this tell us about American foreign and domestic policy? And to help to connect these dots is my next guest. He holds the John Jay and Rebecca Moore's chair of history and African-American Studies at the University of Houston. He's one of the most prolific writers of our time. His latest books are entitled, I dare Say, A Gerald Horn Reader and Acknowledging Radical Histories. Dr. Gerald Horn, as always, welcome to the show and let's connect some dots.
Gerald Horne (02:05):
Thank you for inviting me.
Dr Wilmer Leon (02:08):
If you would please your two most recent books, I dare say, a Gerald Horn Reader and acknowledging radical histories. If you could tell us a little bit about these two most recent works that you've been able to put together.
Gerald Horne (02:23):
So the former work, I dare say, is a collection of articles and essays and reviews that written in recent decades dealing with such disparate matters as the anti-apartheid movement in the United States, the urban revolts in Los Angeles in the 1960s and the 1990s, the relationship between black nationalism and the rise of Japan and the first few decades of the 20th century, A number of articles of that vein and character. Now acknowledging radical histories is a conversation or a series of conversations I had with a younger scholar from Colorado where we talk about a number of books that are published over the years, which as you know, includes, works on the black press, on the music we call jazz on the colonial and post-colonial history of North America, slavery, Haitian Revolution, et cetera.
Dr Wilmer Leon (03:26):
To those varying titles that you've researched, you are one of the preeminent historians, again, one of the most phenomenal writers. What is it that motivates and drives your research? Because everyone, now, I don't have all of your books, but I counted them. I got about 17 of 'em. The topics are just incredibly broad. One thing we can never do with you is put you in a box or pigeonhole you. What drives your research?
Gerald Horne (04:04):
What drives my research? Well, I would say that particularly concerning research, it's curiosity. Curiosity about something that has not been addressed. And to that end, I should say that from my point of view, the research is much more invigorating than the writing. I mean, the writing is fine, but the writing is like work because what
Dr Wilmer Leon (04:29):
I meant, I'm sorry, what I meant was what piques your interest and motivates you? How do you pick your topics?
Gerald Horne (04:42):
How do I pick my topics? Well, I'll give you an example. I was watching a documentary just the other day on black British history, and it was shepherded by a black British subject. He happened to be in Sierra Leone. The Sierra Leone in West Africa was started as a direct result of the British being ousted from what is now in the United States in the late 18th century, and many so-called black loyalists wound up moving to Nova Scotia and Canada to London and eventually to Sierra Leone. And so as he was walking through the archive in Sierra Leone, it occurred to me that there might be an interesting story there concerning black loyalists. That is to say black people who fought against the formation of the United States of America post 1776 and then wound up in Sierra Leone. So I made a mental note to write the Sierra Leone archive to see if they have a website.
(05:42)I know that in Sierra Leone they also had a major university for bay, F-O-U-R-A-H, and even though they've had rather crushing internal disputes, but not so much recently, probably more so in the previous decade, first decade or so of the 21st century, it seems to me there's a story there to be told. Now I'm not sure what the story will be. Likewise, this summer I'll probably be traveling to Cooperstown, New York to the Baseball Hall of Fame. I'm not sure what I'll come up with there with regard to a project, but I know I'm interested in the topic, like I'm interested in West African history, black loyalist history. So I'm sure after I poke around for a few days, I'll come up with a topic.
Dr Wilmer Leon (06:30):
Gotcha, gotcha. It's that constant state of wonder and always interested in looking for the next question that's really telling. Let's move to some of the current topics of the day. Israel's war in Gaza threatens to spill into Lebanon and beyond in response to over 75 years of occupation and oppression. On October 7th, Hamas launched an attack on the settler colony known as Israel. And in response to that attack, Israel has escalated its response to a genocidal devastation of Gaza. Hamas has confirmed the targeting of a deputy head in Dia, a residential area in southern Beirut. Saori was just recently killed. What are your thoughts on the US policy towards this genocide and how do you see this, it seems now to be expanding and escalating beyond the confines of Gaza?
Gerald Horne (07:48):
Well, obviously the United States is an aider and a better with regard to this enfolding genocide and the US authorities should be very careful because in light of the fact that the South African government pursuant to the Genocide Convention, has brought a case before the International Court of Justice, the World Court, there is a possibility that there will be figures, Lloyd Austin, Anthony Blinken, perhaps Mr by himself who may have to consult a lawyer or a travel agent before they step out of the jurisdiction of the United States of America. Recall that there is a topic under international law known as universal jurisdiction that led to the late Chilean dictator Gusto Pinoche being detained in London for a number of weeks pursuant to a warrant issued by a Spanish magistrate in light of Chile. The others to say the country of Mr. Pinoche torturing and slaughtering Spanish nationals. He barely escaped being brought before the Bar of Justice in Madrid.
(08:59)And I dare say that a similar fate might befall some of these US authorities as well, but you mentioned the recent slang of a Hamas leader in Beirut. I'm afraid that there might be a further danger of the Israeli authorities and their US comrades seeking to expand this conflict. Already, you know that the Israeli authorities have said they're fighting a seven front war. Now, ordinarily countries tried to avoid fighting a two front war. Recall what happened during the US Civil War when President Lincoln was being encouraged to attack Great Britain because there was this reasonable suspicion that Great Britain was supporting the so-called Confederate states of America. And Mr. Lincoln said, well, one war at a time, my friends one war at a time. Right now, according to the Israelis, they're fighting wars from their point of view against Gaza, west Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, and probably there are others that I have omitted.
(10:14)Perhaps the most formidable challenge right now is not only in Gaza where despite these Israeli claims that they have killed 8,000 Hamas fighters, you still have an enormous toll with regard to Israeli casualties including deaths of Israeli soldiers. We all know that Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon has caused the abandonment of Northern Israel by reigning rockets from Southern Lebanon down on Northern Israel. In fact, you've had an abandonment effectively of Southern Israel as well. This is presenting an enormous problem for the Israeli economy because what happens when you have these areas abandoned, combined with Israel being heavily dependent upon reservists, that means that folks who ordinarily are involved in the economy sitting in office cubicles, stocking grocery shelves, are either now staying in hotels in Central Israel at the behest of the Israeli government. That is to say they're picking up the tab. Or alternatively, you have people on the front lines who are dodging bullets and projectiles.
(11:32)You might've noticed that on New Year's Eve at Tel Aviv, the commercial and intellectual capital of Israel, you had the Hamas fighters shooting missiles at midnight as sort of a welcome to 2024 bravado into Tel Aviv, and this Bess speaks the enormous problems that the Israelis face. We saw that the United States has withdrawn this massive aircraft carrier, the Gerald or Ford, although it still has the Eisenhower carrier near Southern Yemen, where of course the Ansar Allah referred to as tis in the United States have been shooting missiles into I Iraq and Southern Israel, and of course coming into conflict with the US authorities as well. Now, if you monitor Israeli media, they are not necessarily happy about that. They feel that this might be the result of all of these press articles. We've been skimming in the US media in particular where supposedly there are these bitter arguments between Mr.
(12:45)Biden and Mr. Netanyahu over Mr. Biden telling Mr. Netanyahu that he needs to stop bombing civilians and needs to have a more targeted campaign against amass fighters. And therefore, by withdrawing this drill, r Ford, the US authorities are saying, you're on your own Israel. Well, I'm not so sure because my understanding is that as opposed to this massive drill or forward or aircraft carrier, they're just substituting, they're sending destroyers amphibious carriers as well, which may be more useful in terms of a ground invasion, particularly into Southern Lebanon. So this war is spinning out of control. But let me also say that as a person, as noted who's been monitoring Israeli media, I must say it's quite striking to listen to a number of these Israeli commentators. Many of them of course have US accents, which is not as a surprise, but many of them, if you step outside of Israel and that conflict, they have a much more realistic viewpoint of international politics, which I guess is understandable.
(14:00)What I mean by that is their analysis of the Russia Ukraine conflict is not altogether on board with the mainstream US analysis. Their analysis of the Chinese economy is not necessarily on board with the denigration of China that you hear routinely and regularly in the US media. And that Bess speaks the fact that they're a sovereign state that bespeaks the fact that they're watching very closely and carefully the incipient decline of us imperialism and are deciding perhaps to hedge their betts. And I think that that's a very wise decision because that's something that I would hope and I would wish that many of our Black American leaders would do that is to say they made a wager, whether they it or not, that there would be us hegemony indefinitely into the future. But obviously that's not the case with the rise of the Chinese economy.
(15:00)But unlike these Israeli intellectuals I was just making reference to, I'm talking about right wing Israelis intellectual, it's not progressives. You don't see any sort of clue amongst many of our black American intellectuals and leaders as to whether or not they should reconfigure whether or not they should rejigger, but instead they're motoring ahead as if this were 1991. I should also say that this October 7th attack on Israel by the forces from Gaza reminds us as to how matters can change in a matter of hours. What I mean by that is few of us would acknowledge that on October 6th, a few months later, Israel would be fighting for its very survival. But that's basically what's at play Now. There's no guarantee that Israel as an apartheid state will continue to survive and continue to thrive, and that is something that I would once again hope that many of our black American intellectuals and leaders would consider when they contemplate the future of this country.
Dr Wilmer Leon (16:08):
To that point, I think a lot of folks either didn't listen to what the Hezbollah leader Nasra said on the eighth or the ninth when he gave his speech, one of the points that he was very, very clear to make or one of the questions he was very, very clear to ask was How long are you all willing to do this? And that question just to me was very reminiscent of the Vietnam question, the Kong question, the general Jaap question, who wrote the book? What people's war, people's army, how long are you willing to fight a counter insurgent urban gorilla war that you're not really prepared to fight? And the point that he was making was, we're here till the end because we're fighting for our freedom and we'll die standing on our feet. We refuse to keep living on our knees.
Gerald Horne (17:16):
Well, that's a very important ideological point. And speaking of which, one of the heartening aspects of this otherwise tragic situation is that because of this understandable focus on historic Palestine in the US media, you see that many of our friends on the left and some even beyond the left or beginning to refer to Israel as a settler colonial project. What's interesting about that is that I think it's also leading some on this side of the Atlantic to begin to look at the United States itself as a settler colonial project. That is to say that that was its origins hundreds of years ago before the settlers revolt of 1776. And speaking of which, it's not beyond the realm of imagination that as this conflict in historic Palestine unfolds that the 708,800,000 settlers on the West Bank occupied territory may be forced to evacuate as a part of a wider peace deal.
(18:28)Now, I admit that that does not seem in the cards right now, particularly in light of the fact that all polls suggest that the Israeli populace, if anything, feels that their government is not hitting Gaza hard enough, believe it or not. So obviously to talk about settlers being forced to withdraw, it seems farfetched. But then again, it seemed farfetched on October 6th to talk about Israel fighting for its very survival. Now, if the way folks have analyzed the United States post 1776 would apply to Israel, if there's a settler's revolt on the West Bank of occupied territory, then you can expect if you use that US prism for many to see that as a step forward since after all, they're revolting against an Israeli regime, which we do not necessarily approve of, just like the settlers in the 18th century revolted against a British regime that many did not approve of.
(19:33)I mean, that sounds ludicrous, perhaps fantastical, but I'm trying to make a point about how we should use this conflict in Israel and the focus on it to leverage it on our behalf so we can get a deeper analysis of our plight. You recall in my opening comments, I talked about the black loyalists. It's no secret. Historians have acknowledged for some time that the black population of North America, by several orders of magnitude did not stand with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and Patrick Henry. They did not engage in class collaboration, which has been a hallmark of the settler population of European descent across class lines obviously. And therefore they lost and many of them fled as noted to Nova Scotia, to London, to Sierra Leone, and then those who were left behind were treated atrociously because if you fight a war lose, you should expect to be treated atrociously.
(20:35)Likewise, if there's a settlers revolt on the West Bank, do not expect the bulk of Palestinians to stand by the settlers. I mean, it's unfortunate I even have to make that statement. But in any case, to go back to a global view of this conflict, what's also striking is how there's daylight that's emerging between the us and its so-called European allies with regard to this conflict. Now, on the one hand, you have the federal Republic of Germany, which in some ways is more hawkish than the United States of America with regard to the Israel question, after all, Germany is occupied by US military forces. One of the most important US military bases in the world is the Ramstein in what used to be West Germany. But already you see that with regard to the United States trying to knock together a convoy to confront the Yemenis that initially it was announced that France, Spain, and Italy were on board, but that was premature.
(21:45)They ultimately said that they would not fight or confront the Yemenis under US command. It would have to be under European Union Command or United Nations command or some other entity That Bess speaks how also that the alliances that the United States has come to rely upon may be in need of repair. And you also see that the need of repair with regard to this Ill-advised venture venture in Ukraine, where you see Hungary obviously not on board a key European union country, and France has been making noises about not being on board. And perhaps at some point those noises will be concretized. And likewise, with regard to the new Cold War against with China, which the Israeli right has been talking about quite a bit lately, you notice that France is not on board Germany, even though it's occupied territory is not on board because they see what side of the bread their bread is buttered on, and they want those deals from China whose manufacturing capacity dwarfs that of the United States. By certain measures, this economy is already larger than that of the United States. And so this crisis, this conflict in historic Palestine has exposed and revealed to the world not only the weaknesses and frailties of the Israeli regime, but also the weaknesses and frailties of its partner in arms speaking of the United States of America.
Dr Wilmer Leon (23:32):
And to that point, what you see when you look at the dynamics in the region, you've mentioned Hezbollah in the north, you've got Syria, you've got Anah in Yemen or the Houthis as they are known, and they are all acting on one hand in their best interest, but their common enemy is the United States and it's aircraft carrier in the region known as Israel. And on October 7th, there was a lot of analysis that was saying, oh, Hezbollah was behind this, that Hezbollah was collaborative. And again, Hassan Raah was very clear. He said, we weren't involved on November 7th, but we're in on November 8th, October. We weren't in on October 7th, but we're in on October 8th. So if you would talk about those dynamics, particularly Anah, because they seem to be wanting this smoke, they seem to be wanting this fight, who would've thought that a small poor country like Yemen would now be having the international impact that it's having on world trade as it is selectively attacking ships that are traversing that body of water?
Gerald Horne (25:04):
Well, there's quite a backstory to go back a year or so recall that the Ansara law was in a death match with its neighbor in Saudi Arabia and fighting the Saudis to a standstill. But then what happens is that China brokers a peace accord between Iran, a close ally of the Yemenis and the Saudis, and then of course, that leads to a drawdown of the conflict between the Saudis and the Yemenis. And note that with regard to this, so-called Convoy, that the United States is trying to knock together for a confrontation with the Yemenis that the Saudis have not joined in, in fact, the only neighboring country that has joined in as the Seychelles, which is far distant from the Saudi Yemeni border, far distant from the Red Sea and far distant from the Suez Canal as well.
Dr Wilmer Leon (26:11):
Are you referring to Joe Biden's coalition of the willing that seems to be unwilling? Is that what you're
Gerald Horne (26:18):
Referring coalition of the willing that's unraveling.
Dr Wilmer Leon (26:21):
And
Gerald Horne (26:23):
It's understandable because if you know anything about US foreign policy in recent years and decades is that Washington is an unreliable partner. Despite spending a trillion dollars a year on the Pentagon, they were chased out of Afghanistan in August, 2021. They were able to overthrow Libya in 2010, 2011, but obviously have turned that North African country into a kind of charnel house. They were Ed in Vietnam, 19 75, 19 53, after sending thousands of troops to the Korean peninsula, they were forced into a truce, which is held until recently. Although keep in mind that the North Koreans who fought the United States to a standstill in 1953 has been suggesting that they're willing to rumble again if the United States does not stop its provocations. So it's understandable why the Saudis would not be enthusiastic about joining the So-called Coalition of the Willing. But I should also go back a bit further than the past year.
(27:33)Recall that during the height of the Cold War culminating in 1991 with the collapse of the Soviet Union, you had a socialist party in control of Aidan. Aidan, of course, is a southern Yemen. It's now a launching pad for attacks on Israeli flagships or ships set it to Israel. But what happens that the United States as ever could not leave well enough alone, it did everything in its power to destabilize that particular regime and succeeded. And so now they're faced with an even more formidable challenge coming from Ansar, Allah, Allah. And then if you look at Syria, for example, recall that one of the criticisms that has been made of Mr. Obama was that Juan had an opportunity circa 2013 to bomb Syria and the regime in Damascus of President Al Assad that he backed down the hawks, thought that he should have moved forward even though he tried to say that he did not have support from London, the usual sidekick in these imperialist adventures of US imperialism.
(28:54)And he did not necessarily have support in Congress as well, but in any case, that did not prevent the United States from supporting under the table various disreputable forces, including forces with suspicious ties to Al-Qaeda and to isis, but for an intervention by the Iranians and Moscow, perhaps President al-Assad in Damascus would've been overthrown by now. So this is a very open and notorious train of events that I'm describing. It also sheds light on why Egypt is not necessarily enthusiastic about joining this convoy to help to circumvent the Yemeni defacto blockade on the Red Sea because the Egyptians get a significant portion of their government revenues from operating the Suez Canal about 9 billion annually. But the Egyptians also have reason to suspect the good intentions of US imperialism particularly, and in light of the fact that the US imperialism is backing this genocidal campaign in Gaza.
(30:20)And to that end, I should mention that there's the Rafa crossing between Gaza and Egypt and the scuttlebutt from Israeli sources is that you should expect a more massive attack on that Rafa crossing, which in some ways would be a declaration of war against Egypt, believe it or not. To that end, Jordan was not on that list of seven fronts where Israel is supposedly now involved in conflict. But if you monitor Israeli media, they're beginning to raise serious questions about the pacifist intentions of the Jordanians. I recall that a significant percentage, if not the bulk of the Jordanian population is Palestinians. They're particularly important with regard to skilled labor, with regard to engineers and physicians and all the rest. And the Israelis are now charging that they suspect that there is a smuggling of weapons from into the West Bank occupied territory, which is allowing the Palestinians on the West Bank to resist more stoutly.
(31:42)The incursions made by the 800,000 settlers who by the way, are armed with rifles from the United States of America. And so this seven front war easily could turn into an eight front war, a nine front war with folks in your audience. That is to say the US nationals and citizens basically picking up the tab at the same time when homelessness stalks the land, when hunger is out of control, when many of our children do not have adequate textbooks or they're fed inadequate versions of history per Governor DeSantis of Florida. And so it reminds me of the slogan raised in 1972 by Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern, the senator from South Dakota, when he said, come home United States of America, he was referring to come home from Vietnam. Now we can say, come home United States of America, come home from these wild-eyed schemes of war and conflict in West Asia.
Dr Wilmer Leon (32:51):
And you and I for the last 30 minutes, we've been discussing Gaza, we've been discussing the settler colony of Israel, we've been discussing Yemen and Anah. Why should African-Americans care? That is something on my radio show inside the issues on SiriusXM that people call in and ask all the time. Wilmer, you spend all this time talking about the Palestinians, Wilmer, you spend all the time pick up what's happening in Venezuela, what's happening in Argentina, what's happening in Peru, why should we care? Now, you just touched on a bit of it, but explain to my audience as African-Americans, why does this matter to us?
Gerald Horne (33:46):
Well, first of all, I pay quite a bit in taxes, and I'm sure there are many in your audience who do the same politics amongst other things is about where do your tax dollars go. Now, if those who call into your other programs and object to talking about foreign policy, I guess they don't care where their tax dollars go. Well, sorry, I do care where my tax dollars go. I just mentioned that a trillion dollars is spent annually on the Pentagon, which can't seem to win a war anywhere. So obviously there is a mismatch of revenue, taxes, and purposes war when we should have a match between revenue, taxes, and education and healthcare. Secondly, with regard to historic Palestine in particular, that conflict could trigger World War iii. Now, maybe there are those in your audience who think that there's some sort of black neutron bomb.
(34:54)You recall that the neutron bomb under Ronald Wilson Reagan, it killed people, but left property standing. I guess they think that a neutron bomb would kill everybody except black people, and so therefore we don't have to be concerned. Well, I think that that's science fiction of the worst kind, and then we also know that there is a disproportionate percentage of black people in the military. It's no accident as historians like to say that the top military man and the top civilian in the military are both black Americans. Lloyd Austin, chief of the Pentagon, CQ Brown, the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You might've noticed that in the anti-affirmative action decision rendered by the US Supreme Court about eight or nine months ago, they had a special carve out for US military academies for West Point, the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, the Naval Academy, and Annapolis, Maryland, because those who rule this country recognize that because of the horrendous history that we've suffered, that's bred a culture of fighting.
(36:08)I wrote a whole book about boxing where I tried to explain why there was a disproportionate percentage of black Americans excelling in the sweet science, Muhammad Ali, Joe Lewis, Jack Johnson, sugar Ray Leonard to list us long and likewise, that feeds and bleeds into the military. You know that during the conflict in Vietnam, one of the startling aspects of that genocidal conflict was the disproportionate number of black Americans who were killed during this war because we were overrepresented not to mention the disproportionate percentage who were subject to court martial and other kinds of pulverizing penalties. So there are so many reasons of why we should be concerned beyond just being humanitarians, beyond just being folks who are concerned about our own future. Because when these wars happen, inevitably what happens is that it puts wind in the sails of many of our chief antagonists right here at home. And they might get the bright idea that if the Israelis can liquidate Willy-nilly, the Palestinians, perhaps the Israeli comrades here in North America can liquidate Willy-nilly their long-time, long-term antagonists, speaking of black folk. So it's a shame that we have to spend time explicating the obvious because explicating the obvious prevents us from going on to discuss more naughty and difficult questions to our detriment.
Dr Wilmer Leon (37:56):
You mentioned the Zionist settler colony of Israel and a seven front war, and what we see playing out right before us in terms of American foreign policy is I'll just say a multi-front war. We've got the United States and Ukraine, we have the United States in Gaza, we have the United States trying its damnedest to pick a fight with China. So those are three fronts. Then we've got Venezuela and Guyana with the United States convincing Britain to send a ship over there. We've got the United States involved now in Argentina. So help me understand who it is that seems to think that a getting involved in these multi-front conflicts is a good idea, let alone who thinks we can win. To your earlier point, we haven't won anything since 1953. And the other point is we're the ones that are starting the conflicts, we're starting fights, we can't win. I don't get the logic, and I know there isn't any,
Gerald Horne (39:22):
Well, I'm sure that those who are nit pickers would point to the successful invasion of Grenada in 1983,
Dr Wilmer Leon (39:34):
And Panama
Gerald Horne (39:35):
Could sit comfortably in Yankee Stadium in the Bronx. I guess you could count that as a victory. But I think in
Dr Wilmer Leon (39:44):
Order Panama,
Gerald Horne (39:45):
On Panama, and of course,
Dr Wilmer Leon (39:46):
Oh wait, I left one out because now we're also trying to get Kenya to be the menstrual black face on white foolishness as we try to invade Haiti.
Gerald Horne (39:58):
I think that in order to understand these conflicts, you have to understand the military industrial complex. That is to say, if you look at the stock of Lockheed Martin, look at the stock of Raytheon, look at the stock of Boeing, or look at the front page of the New York Times a day or so ago talking about how high level Pentagon officials like Esper, the Pentagon chief under Mr. Trump and Top Generals, they're now defecting to Silicon Valley with all of these harebrained science fiction schemes about new weapons that they expect the Pentagon to pick up the tab for. So the US military and the Pentagon is basically a slush fund for the 1%. And obviously it does not matter to a degree whether or not the Pentagon is fit for purpose or whether or not the Pentagon actually is spending tax dollars in a manner that will allow us imperialism to overthrow regimes.
(41:08)Of course, US imperialism, to be fair, was able to overthrow the regime in Libya, for example, about a decade or so ago. However, I should say that with regard to China, if the United States cannot adequately confront Russia a country of 150 million compared to the United States, 330 million, not to mention the United States being backed up by the federal public of Germany, Germany, 82 million, France and Britain, 60 million each. Not to mention Poland, which by some measures is spending more on the military proportionately and per capita than a number of its Western European allies combined. They are obviously not able to subdue Russia and Ukraine. So how are they going to subdue China? A country with a population of 1.3 billion, which as noted has an economy by some measures larger than that of the United States of America. We have the Taiwanese elections coming up in less than two weeks. Taiwan is the island of 20 million or so off the southern coast of China that China claims as its own.
(42:22)The United States, of course, sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly would like to see Taiwan declare independence, which would violate the pacs with China going back to the era of not only Richard Nixon, but Jimmy Carter, that would be a flashpoint. That would be a red line for the people's republic of China. So far, the United States has been able to sign up the Philippines to be a kind of pit bull nipping at the heels of the people's Republic of China. I don't think the United States should be counting on Australia, although Australia supposedly is part of Aus, Australia, United States, Japan, India, et cetera. And so once again, Washington is playing with fire because it keeps sticking its nose into business that does not concern it. And at the same time, thus far, it has been able to escape without any substantial blows or at least military blows to the homeland.
(43:34)But that lucky training of events is not inevitable, and in any case, even if there's not a military blow to the homeland, there is all manner of collateral damage, which you can see in the streets of Washington DC in terms of the tents for the homeless, you can see it with regard to the streets of Portland, Oregon with folks sleeping on sidewalks as if they're seeking to emulate a Calcutta in the 1940s. So at some point, I think that the majority of the citizenry of this country will have to realize that the present course is not sustainable and that a course correction is long overdue.
Dr Wilmer Leon (44:25):
We saw recently Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, go to Kenya, sign a five year mutual defense pact with Kenya as the United States is trying to convince Kenya that they need again to be the black face on American imperialism and go into Haiti. The Kenyan Supreme Court has said, wait, not so fast. And I think on around the 25th or 26th of this month, we'll get a decision from the Kenyan Supreme Court. When I saw the photograph of Secretary Austin with his counterpart from Kenya signing this agreement, it made me wonder if the United States is trying to buy a bulwark in Kenya as we see Niger fading and we're seeing a turn anti colonialist turn in a number of other African countries. Is the United States trying to buy a friend in Kenya?
Gerald Horne (45:26):
Well, that's a possibility because if you look at East Africa in general, particularly East Africa that abuts the Red Sea, which we've already made reference to, that region is on fire right now. I mean, look at Ethiopia, one of the most populous nations on the continent, which just had this internal conflict with regard to Tig Gray. The latest news is that the Ethiopians in search of an outlet to the Red Sea, which they lost when their former province Eritrea seceded from Ethiopia about three or so decades ago, they've just cut a deal with Somali land, which is not a recognized nation, although it's part of the larger Somalia. And now what's happening is that Ethiopia now has that outlet to the Red Sea through Somali land. The Somalis are in high dungeon, they're very upset. Now, some of you may think that there's nothing they can do about it because after all, they have their own internal problems with Al-Shabaab, but oftentimes you need an external issue like Ethiopia to get Somalis to rally around the flag.
(46:44)And so this could lead to an explosion on the Red Sea, and you mentioned Kenya. We should not see it as accidental that the first, thus far, only US president had roots, African ancestry had roots in Kenya. Kenya has had a long-term, long-time relationship in the United States of America. As a matter of fact, I wrote a book on Kenya some years ago, and what I pointed out was something that I would hope other scholars would follow up on, which is that Great Britain, which had this massive empire was always looking for those who could be defined as white to staff its empire. And if you look at the early history of Kenya, going back to the 1890s, some of the key personnel happened to be Euro-Americans, for example. And all through the decades leading up to independence from Kenya in 1963, you had a substantial number of Euro Americas.
(47:54)As a matter of fact, I start my book talking about the British committing atrocities against the so-called Mal Mal Revolt pre 1963. The figures that I focus on are Euro Americans committing atrocities against Kenya pre 1963. So there's this very close relationship between Nairobi and Washington. That's why this attempt to have Kenya come to police, Haiti should not be seen as a shock, nor a surprise, particularly since the President Ruta now in power, many of us were surprised by his victory in the election of late. He was not necessarily the anointed successor of his predecessor, speaking of President Hu Kenyata. And so he, by his own admission as a hustler, as a matter of fact, that was his slogan, he wants to have a hustler society. Well, this Hustler society might involve accepting dollars from the US Treasury in return for doing dirty deeds in the Caribbean.
Dr Wilmer Leon (49:20):
Where's the Congressional Black Caucus? Where's the naacp? Where's the voice? The conscience of the Congress, I wrote a piece a while ago, is the conscience of the Congress unconscious, particularly as it relates to the invasion of Haiti. You've got people like Hakeem Jeffries and Kamala Harris trying to go down to Racom and twist arms to get some of the Caribbean countries to have backed his play. They all said no, which is why the United States, I believe, which is why the United States wound up in Kenya and a willing recipient of America's larges in terms of again, being the minstrel face on American imperialism. Where is the conscience of the Congress here?
Gerald Horne (50:11):
Well, with regard to the Congress, there's a split in the Congressional Black Caucus, particularly with regard to Palestine, where you have a stalwarts like Cory Bush of St. Louis and Andre Carson of Indiana, who happens to be a Muslim, some Lee of Western Pennsylvania, Jamal Bowman of Bronx, Westchester, New York calling for a ceasefire. And as a result, the Israeli lobby, the Zionist lobby, is pledging to spend a hundred million dollars or more during the 2024 electoral cycle to make sure they do not return to Congress. Those stalwarts do not include the aforementioned speaker in waiting. So-called honking Jefferies. Wait a
Dr Wilmer Leon (50:52):
Minute, wait a minute. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I get a sense of some hypocrisy or inconsistency here because you have APAC openly threatening and admitting to what I would interpret as involving themselves in American elections. But somehow if China is alleged to have done it, or if Russia is alleged to have done it, that's the reason for us to go to war. Is it me or is that some sense of hypocrisy?
Gerald Horne (51:27):
Well, obviously when we come to power, we'll have to have a thorough investigation of the Zionist lobby. As a matter of fact, I was just rereading DU autobiography and I got into the chapter where he talks about when he was indicted 1951, allegedly being the agent of a foreign power because he was campaigning against nuclear weapons and campaigning for peace. Now, fortunately, he was able to escape prison at the age of 83, but that tells you how seriously, the US Justice Department, at least at one time took this question of registering as foreign agents. But in any case, the list of stalwarts that I was reciting does not include Gregory Meeks of Southeast Queens, the ranking Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and I could go on in this vein. So obviously we have some house cleaning to do with regard to these elections.
(52:31)Setting aside the Israeli lobby, which you may recall dangled a cool 20 million before the nose of Hill Harper, the actor who was running for office in the state of Michigan, if he would go after Congresswoman Rashida Tib of Michigan, the only Congress person of Palestinian origin in the US Congress. But I would caution and warn the Israeli lobby that they need to pay more attention to what's going on in Israel, because as I said, as I monitor the Israeli media, I see much more understanding even on the Israeli right, by the way, about the global correlation of forces. I mean, for example, you just heard the news, I'm sure that the Zionist lobby forced Claudine gay, the first black woman, president Farber, to walk the plank because she was not vociferous enough in terms of denouncing amass post October 7th, and they gen up these plagiarism charges against her.
(53:42)And you also see that it'll be quite easy as US imperialism goes into decline for the Zionists to be scapegoated, although obviously that would be a simple minded explanation. But it reminds me of the who Lost China debate post 1949 after the Communist Party came to power. It wasn't the United States to lose China. It didn't belong to the United States, but certainly that led to the destruction of careers, et cetera. And already, perhaps to follow up on this point, there may be members of the Zionist lobby who are paying attention. For example, Nelson Pelts, a car carrying member of the 1% who is fighting a gorilla war to replace board members of Disney, which has been hemorrhaging cash because of a futile attempt to keep up in the streaming wars with Netflix. He's also on the board of Unilever, a major European corporation among his assets, or Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
(54:50)Ben and Jerry's, as you know, are staunch and stern critics of Israel. And what happened is that the Simon Wiesenthal Center of Southern California, which is a leading member of the pro-Israel camp in this country, then went after Ben and Jerry's, and then Nelson Peltz went after Simon Wiesenthal Center. He resigned from their board. I found that to be extraordinary. Perhaps he's keeping up with the news. Perhaps he recognizes the danger that happens when you have the Zionist lobby overreaching. And the analogy I've often brought into play is a major force in US society, circa 18 60, 18 61 who owned billions of dollars in assets in the body, some enslaved Africans, my ancestors likely yours as well, and they overreached. They decided to go for the gusto and try to overthrow the Lincoln government so that they could perpetuate the enslavement of Africans forevermore. Well, they were a powerful force.
(56:01)After all, Virginians and slave owners that controlled the White House had controlled the US Supreme Court were disproportionately represented in the State Department and the Treasury Department, et cetera, but they overreached and wound up losing everything that is to say losing their most valuable property. That is to say their investment in enslaved Africans. And now Israel might be on the verge of replicating that dastardly example. And I trust, and I hope that the Zionist lobby will not be caught with its pants down and will recognize that it needs to draw back. It needs to cool its jets, it needs to cool the hotheads. Otherwise it may find itself in an analogous boat that would couple them with the unlamented departure of the Confederate states of America.
Dr Wilmer Leon (56:58):
Isn't that overreach the very same problem that the United States is facing on the global scale as again, we look at the failure in Ukraine and newsflash to folks that war is lost as we look at the fight that the United States is trying to pick, as we look at the development of bricks and the growth of bricks, as we look at what's happening again in Peru and what's happening in Argentina and what's happening in Bolivia and what's happening in Venezuela, the United States, and again, the United States trying to overthrow Haiti, well, not overthrow, but reinve because it already controls the government, what's left of the government. So we're transitioning from the unipolar to the multipolar, and with the United States fomenting, all of this unrest has to a great degree sanctioned itself right out of the party because a lot of the countries that I've mentioned, Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela, they have all developed relationships. They're developing currencies to lessen the impact, if not eliminate the impact of American sanctions. So all of that isn't that overreach what the American Empire has been experiencing, and we will look back 10 years from now and say, that was the beginning of the end.
Gerald Horne (58:24):
Well, certainly it's overreach. I mean, I'm glad you mentioned Argentina because in a message to comrade earlier today, I was drawing an analogy between the new government in Argentina coming to Power about three weeks ago under President Belay and the Zionist lobby, because Argentina had the rare honor of being asked to join the bricks, Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, which is the rising challenger to us, imperialist hegemony, but for various reasons that need not detain us here, they slapped the side, that invitation because they're making a bet on the pass, on the continuation,
(59:09)On the continuation of dollar hegemony. And if people were trying to figure that out, you may want to add to your equation the fact that by some measures, Argentina has more psychiatrists per capita than any other country in the world. I mean, they're trying to sort out who they are. I mean, they border Brazil, which has the largest black population west of Nigeria, and there's this real hysteria and fear in Buenos Aires about being considered, so-called Third World. And so joining an alliance led by an Asian China and including a heavily black Brazil was something that apparently among other things, offended their racial sensibilities, or I should say racist sensibilities, but do not fret because I do not expect President Malay to serve out his term. A general strike has been called within days. I expect them to be driven out of office, not least because Pricess are going through the roof.
(01:00:15)It reminds me of when the United States had exerted sanctions against Zimbabwe some years ago after Zimbabwe had moved to extrapolate the land of the settlers, reversing the fruits of settler colonialism, which still was quite rare, and the United States tried to drive the economy into the ditch, and so you could go into a tavern and harra the capital and spend maybe 1 million Zimm dollars to order a beer. By the time you drank the beer and was time to pay the tab, you had to pay 5 million or perhaps even 5 trillion Zim dollars. That's how terrible inflation was, and that's where Argentina is heading. Now at Lee Zimbabwe had the excuse that it was trying to do right by its landless population. It was trying to reverse the fruits of settler colonialism, and so therefore, it was fighting a just war. Argentina does not have that excuse. It was invited into the bricks.
(01:01:19)It was invited to join the winning side. As a matter of fact, I've made the joke that perhaps it's not a joke that I'm hoping that the Bricks has individual memberships because I'd like to join the bricks, quite frankly, and get off this sinking ship known as the United States of America. So certainly, once again, I think that as I monitor the Israeli media, they recognize what they're up against. But despite that, they're not necessarily curtailing their genocidal war campaign. I guess the best you can say is that they know what they're up against, but they're saying full speed ahead. And it reminds me of the book by the journalist Seymour Hearst, a Samson option, where he suggested that in a crisis like the biblical figure, Samson, the Israelis would bring down the temple on all of us, which would of course mean triggering World War iii, which could mean destruction of Israel, perhaps even destruction of its sidekick in Washington.
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:02:33):
Dr. Gerald Horn, as always, my brother, thank you so much for your time. I greatly, greatly appreciate that analysis. Thank you so much for giving me your time, giving us your time, and joining us today.
Gerald Horne (01:02:45):
Thank you for inviting me,
Dr Wilmer Leon (01:02:47):
Folks. Thank you so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wiler Leon. Stay tuned for the new episodes every week. Also, please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow me on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. And remember, this is where analysis of politics, culture, and history, converge and talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter here on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Warmer Leon. Have a great one. Peace and blessings. I'm out
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